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2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]

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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 19, 2019, 3:09 PM Post
Posts: 997
I can’t wait to see this team when the schedule finally eases up.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 19, 2019, 7:25 PM Post
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The Weatherman
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Does anyone enjoy the 3 hour HR derby that MLB has become?


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) 12:20 PM CDT
Posted: May 19, 2019, 8:30 PM Post
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TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:
Ed Sedar needs to be canned. The guy is simply terrible. Not saying this specific play was his fault, but we are easily the worst baserunning team in the league and have been for some time.

This team's inability to get runners in from 3rd with 0 or 1 outs is pretty pathetic. Our pitching has been great (aside from Burnes meltdown) in May, but we are getting eaten alive by mental mistakes and really lack fundamentals


Why is Sedar still on this staff? Yes, he is dreadful. He must have compromising photos of Counsell somewhere...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 19, 2019, 10:09 PM Post
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Impressive that Woodruff lasted 8 innings. I'm usually a half inning tops.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) 12:20 PM CDT
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:49 AM Post
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Pugger said:
TwinsBrewersWorldSeries said:
Ed Sedar needs to be canned. The guy is simply terrible. Not saying this specific play was his fault, but we are easily the worst baserunning team in the league and have been for some time.

This team's inability to get runners in from 3rd with 0 or 1 outs is pretty pathetic. Our pitching has been great (aside from Burnes meltdown) in May, but we are getting eaten alive by mental mistakes and really lack fundamentals


Why is Sedar still on this staff? Yes, he is dreadful. He must have compromising photos of Counsell somewhere...


No. No we're not and no he isn't. You just assume we are because you watch 100 Brewers games a year.

They made 19 outs at home last season. That was middle of the pack - 24 teams fell between 15 and 23 outs at home. They made 56 outs on the bases last season, 25 teams were between 46 and 64.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 9:02 AM Post
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Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.

Sedar is not a good 3B coach. He sends guys that are not only out at the plate, but out by a great deal. Sometimes 20 feet.

He is bad, and no stat you throw out there can convince otherwise.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) 12:20 PM CDT
Posted: May 20, 2019, 10:45 AM Post
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DHonks said:
Driving on a road trip now, so listened to Jim Powell on the drive. They said the play where Counsell was ejected was unreviewable, but should have been foul. And earlier this week the Brewers thought they threw someone out on the same play and it was ruled foul. Amazing how every Brewers replay or call seems to go against them

The family and I were at the both the Friday and Saturday games and listened to the Sunday game on the way out of town. They also were very clear that the bounce on the wild pitch was a very lucky bounce. Uncanny luck.

The bullpen is not our weakness, that starting pitching is. Till it proves otherwise, on paper, it’s a pretty bad group.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:02 AM Post
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Not only was it a lucky bounce but the 3rd base coach has little or nothing to do with that kind of play. the runner reads and reacts with help from the hitter.

I swear people just love to hate on the 3rd base coach. They get no credit when a guy scores on a close play....but all the blame when they take a calculated risk and a guy gets thrown out.

My guess is every fan base hates the third base coach........thankless job.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:17 AM Post
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markedman5 said:
Not only was it a lucky bounce but the 3rd base coach has little or nothing to do with that kind of play. the runner reads and reacts with help from the hitter.

I swear people just love to hate on the 3rd base coach. They get no credit when a guy scores on a close play....but all the blame when they take a calculated risk and a guy gets thrown out.

My guess is every fan base hates the third base coach........thankless job.


Yep, this is spot on for me. It is a very easy thing to complain about so most do. I am sure each and every year there are times where guys get hosed at home plate by a wide margin because of a bad decision by the 3B coach.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:26 AM Post
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turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.


The eyeball test is what people rely on when their opinion isn't factually correct.

How many other 3B coaches have you extensively watched to determine their performance relative to his?


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 11:50 AM Post
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I will have to dig up the article again but the last time this was looked at it was found that 3B coaches didn't send enough. This was about 10 years ago and the 3B coaches were only sending when it was a 90% chance or better. Should be sending when there is a 70% or higher chance the runner will be safe.

You also want to send at 2-outs even if it is a 50-50 play. I believe the chances to score from 3rd with 2-outs is far lower than 50% probably close to 30%.

I don't think Sedar sends enough.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 1:49 PM Post
Posts: 861
nate82 said:
I will have to dig up the article again but the last time this was looked at it was found that 3B coaches didn't send enough. This was about 10 years ago and the 3B coaches were only sending when it was a 90% chance or better. Should be sending when there is a 70% or higher chance the runner will be safe.

You also want to send at 2-outs even if it is a 50-50 play. I believe the chances to score from 3rd with 2-outs is far lower than 50% probably close to 30%.

I don't think Sedar sends enough.


I read the same thing in a more recent book (Russell Carleton's "The Shift"), and the numbers were similar, IIRC it was 65% success needed. The author only half jokingly stated that teams, at least the more conservative ones, would be better off with actual windmills who send the runner every time. The numbers were different, but the conclusion similar, on tagging up at 2nd, on going first to third, and pretty much any baserunning scenario. But human beings would rather err by being too cautious than looking bad when even a correct send fails. And no Wonder considering how much crap 3B coaches already get when they're being overly cautious!

What also fascinates me in these discussions is that some people seem to think that giving stop signs or taking a hitter's batting gloves is all that the base coaches do. The in game part of their job is probably far less impactful than the coaching aspects.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 2:29 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.

Sedar is not a good 3B coach. He sends guys that are not only out at the plate, but out by a great deal. Sometimes 20 feet.

He is bad, and no stat you throw out there can convince otherwise.


He has been employed by the Brewers for a long time, if they thought was bad he would be fired. That isn't a stat, it's just logic.

If he was going rogue out there & just sending guys at his own discretion, he would have been fired.

That he hasn't been fired, when everyone thinks it's so obvious he should be, indicates to me that him sending guys aggressively is part of an organizational philosophy dictated from the top down.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 4:27 PM Post
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markedman5 said:
Not only was it a lucky bounce but the 3rd base coach has little or nothing to do with that kind of play. the runner reads and reacts with help from the hitter.

I swear people just love to hate on the 3rd base coach. They get no credit when a guy scores on a close play....but all the blame when they take a calculated risk and a guy gets thrown out.

My guess is every fan base hates the third base coach........thankless job.


Did anyone blame Sedar for that play? If so, there was nothing anyone could do abut it. It was just terribly unlucky. I'm not going to go abck and read, but I don't think anyone actually blamed him for that play specifically, it's all the other boneheaded ones...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 4:28 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.


The eyeball test is what people rely on when their opinion isn't factually correct.

How many other 3B coaches have you extensively watched to determine their performance relative to his?


None, I just know that the windmill is bad at what he does because I watch 150 games a year...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 4:49 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.

Sedar is not a good 3B coach. He sends guys that are not only out at the plate, but out by a great deal. Sometimes 20 feet.

He is bad, and no stat you throw out there can convince otherwise.


He has been employed by the Brewers for a long time, if they thought was bad he would be fired. That isn't a stat, it's just logic.

If he was going rogue out there & just sending guys at his own discretion, he would have been fired.

That he hasn't been fired, when everyone thinks it's so obvious he should be, indicates to me that him sending guys aggressively is part of an organizational philosophy dictated from the top down.


Just because they keep a coach around doesn't mean they can't do better. McCarthy kept Capers around too damn long in GB.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 5:05 PM Post
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Pugger said:
sveumrules said:
turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.

Sedar is not a good 3B coach. He sends guys that are not only out at the plate, but out by a great deal. Sometimes 20 feet.

He is bad, and no stat you throw out there can convince otherwise.


He has been employed by the Brewers for a long time, if they thought was bad he would be fired. That isn't a stat, it's just logic.

If he was going rogue out there & just sending guys at his own discretion, he would have been fired.

That he hasn't been fired, when everyone thinks it's so obvious he should be, indicates to me that him sending guys aggressively is part of an organizational philosophy dictated from the top down.


Just because they keep a coach around doesn't mean they can't do better. McCarthy kept Capers around too damn long in GB.


Eventually Capers performance was judged as being below standard by his employers, he was fired.

Sedar has not been fired, which indicates to me that his employers have found his performance acceptable to this point.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 5:09 PM Post
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sveumrules said:

Sedar has not been fired, which indicates to me that his employers have found his performance acceptable to this point.


Which is just baffling to me...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 5:19 PM Post
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turborickey said:
PeaveyFury said:
turborickey said:
Stats and stats but there is something to be said for the eyeball test.


The eyeball test is what people rely on when their opinion isn't factually correct.

How many other 3B coaches have you extensively watched to determine their performance relative to his?


None, I just know that the windmill is bad at what he does because I watch 150 games a year...


There are 2,430 MLB games per season.

Even if somebody watches 150 Brewers games plus 75 more random games throughtout the year, they've still seen less than 10% of all MLB games.

What if 3rd base coaches in the other 90 plus % of the games are making the same or worse decisions?

What if our front office has actually parsed data from all 2,430 MLB games over multiple seasons & determined the best course of action is to be aggressive sending runners in certain situations & have communicated to Eddie they would like him to act accordingly & that is how he somehow manages to keep his job year after year?


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 6:01 PM Post
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sveumrules said:

What if 3rd base coaches in the other 90 plus % of the games are making the same or worse decisions?



I simply don't care about the other 90%, I only care about the Brewers, and our 3B coach is bad, very bad.


sveumrules said:
What if our front office has actually parsed data from all 2,430 MLB games over multiple seasons & determined the best course of action is to be aggressive sending runners in certain situations & have communicated to Eddie they would like him to act accordingly & that is how he somehow manages to keep his job year after year?


Doesn't change the fact that his judgement is poor in certain situations. He is bad at his job.


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