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2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]

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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 6:45 PM Post
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turborickey said:
sveumrules said:

What if 3rd base coaches in the other 90 plus % of the games are making the same or worse decisions?



I simply don't care about the other 90%, I only care about the Brewers, and our 3B coach is bad, very bad.


sveumrules said:
What if our front office has actually parsed data from all 2,430 MLB games over multiple seasons & determined the best course of action is to be aggressive sending runners in certain situations & have communicated to Eddie they would like him to act accordingly & that is how he somehow manages to keep his job year after year?


Doesn't change the fact that his judgement is poor in certain situations. He is bad at his job.


Yet, statistically he isn’t, and you’ve no comparable sample to benchmark to. Perhaps it’s your observation that is flawed?


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 6:52 PM Post
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turborickey said:
sveumrules said:

What if 3rd base coaches in the other 90 plus % of the games are making the same or worse decisions?



I simply don't care about the other 90%, I only care about the Brewers, and our 3B coach is bad, very bad.


sveumrules said:
What if our front office has actually parsed data from all 2,430 MLB games over multiple seasons & determined the best course of action is to be aggressive sending runners in certain situations & have communicated to Eddie they would like him to act accordingly & that is how he somehow manages to keep his job year after year?


Doesn't change the fact that his judgement is poor in certain situations. He is bad at his job.


Just repeating it doesn’t make it so and we’ve read your opinion of Sedar on this board enough to know where you stand. You don’t like him and think he does a terrible job, we get it

He could make the correct call 20 times in a row and if on the 21st time the runner gets gunned out at home, we know who is going to be complaining in the IGT about good ol’ Windmill.

There are posters who are trying to engage you to think about other 3B coaches and bring up people who have done statistical analysis on how often a runner should be sent, but you don’t care. You lose credibility when you aren’t even willing to consider that your viewpoint might be skewed because of your sample.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:27 PM Post
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yup, I'm the only one who complains about Sedar...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:29 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:

Yet, statistically he isn’t, and you’ve no comparable sample to benchmark to. Perhaps it’s your observation that is flawed?


Or perhaps I am right...

I don't think it would be hard to find 20 other posters who agree with me, yet you guys continue to hammer my opinion because you don't agree with it.

That's fine.

There are no stats that you can throw at me that prove he is a good 3B coach. I know better, I've seen enough to know why I formed my opinion.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:38 PM Post
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turborickey said:
There are no stats that you can throw at me that prove he is a good 3B coach. I know better, I've seen enough to know why I formed my opinion.


Quite frankly, there are no stats that can prove anything about a 3B coaches' ability. There are way too many factors to consider. Perhaps with Statcast we can somehow come up with a "scored probability" based on a runner's speed, jump and read of the ball on the play, and the fielder's arm and accuracy. Not to mention number of outs, other runners on the bases, and context of batting order.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 7:52 PM Post
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If it's a close game, I'm basically okay with anybody who gets sent home with 2 outs unless Yelich is on deck, Aguilar is the guy coming in from 3rd, or the scouting report on the defense is known to be stellar.

It's a difficult defensive play to tag a guy out at home. If the throw happens to be perfect and it looks bad cuz then the guy is out by 20 feet, so be it. Most of the time the catcher has to move and catch an offline throw in the dirt/short hop, then maneuver himself and his glove back in front of the plate to tag the guy sliding/diving 3-6 feet outside or inside the plate directly opposite the direction the catcher moved to catch the ball.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 20, 2019, 9:18 PM Post
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turborickey said:
PeaveyFury said:

Yet, statistically he isn’t, and you’ve no comparable sample to benchmark to. Perhaps it’s your observation that is flawed?


Or perhaps I am right...

I don't think it would be hard to find 20 other posters who agree with me, yet you guys continue to hammer my opinion because you don't agree with it.

That's fine.

There are no stats that you can throw at me that prove he is a good 3B coach. I know better, I've seen enough to know why I formed my opinion.


But your opinion could be very wrong, since it's based on basically nothing other than your own observations of just him and nothing else, as you've clearly said. It's fine if you have an opinion. Where your opinion is getting "hammered on": is because actual facts suggest it's wrong, and you've stated that you don't care. That's generally not the best way to be on the correct side of arguing a point...


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 10:58 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
turborickey said:
PeaveyFury said:

Yet, statistically he isn’t, and you’ve no comparable sample to benchmark to. Perhaps it’s your observation that is flawed?


Or perhaps I am right...

I don't think it would be hard to find 20 other posters who agree with me, yet you guys continue to hammer my opinion because you don't agree with it.

That's fine.

There are no stats that you can throw at me that prove he is a good 3B coach. I know better, I've seen enough to know why I formed my opinion.


But your opinion could be very wrong, since it's based on basically nothing other than your own observations of just him and nothing else, as you've clearly said. It's fine if you have an opinion. Where your opinion is getting "hammered on": is because actual facts suggest it's wrong, and you've stated that you don't care. That's generally not the best way to be on the correct side of arguing a point...


actual facts?

ok then...


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Online  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 11:07 AM Post
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The only relevant fact is that Eddie has remained employed by the Brewers through multiple regimes.

The current regime has had four offseasons to replace him & has chosen not to each time, while many other coaches have fallen by the wayside.

Any individual fan's opinion (or even the collective opinion of all fans) is still less relevant than what his employers think of his job performance.

That his employers continually choose to bring him back leads me to believe they find his performance acceptable or better, so not bad.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 11:29 AM Post
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turborickey said:
PeaveyFury said:

But your opinion could be very wrong, since it's based on basically nothing other than your own observations of just him and nothing else, as you've clearly said. It's fine if you have an opinion. Where your opinion is getting "hammered on": is because actual facts suggest it's wrong, and you've stated that you don't care. That's generally not the best way to be on the correct side of arguing a point...


actual facts?

ok then...


Yep, like the fact that the Brewers are solidly average in runners thrown out and outs on the bases, which is how I'd think you'd measure a 3B coach's performance.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 11:49 AM Post
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The problem with the eye test in this situation is it's much easier feel like someone screwed something up that was preventable when you see a runner get thrown out at home in comparison to the next batter flying out to end the inning. But even if the runner is thrown out half the time, that's likely going to score the run more often than if you just let the next guy hit. So if guys aren't getting thrown out, you're most likely losing runs by being too conservative.

As others have stated, there's a ton of chance in play when sending a guy home. So even when it looks like a guy is going to be out by 10 feet, with the chance of a bad throw/a mishandled catch/a dropped ball/a great slide, there's still a pretty good chance the run's going to score more often with the send than with the 30% or whatever chance that they'll score by letting the inning play out.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 12:45 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
turborickey said:
PeaveyFury said:

But your opinion could be very wrong, since it's based on basically nothing other than your own observations of just him and nothing else, as you've clearly said. It's fine if you have an opinion. Where your opinion is getting "hammered on": is because actual facts suggest it's wrong, and you've stated that you don't care. That's generally not the best way to be on the correct side of arguing a point...


actual facts?

ok then...


Yep, like the fact that the Brewers are solidly average in runners thrown out and outs on the bases, which is how I'd think you'd measure a 3B coach's performance.


That means nothing as it doesn't factor in when guys should have been sent but weren't. Or consider when someone should have been toast but the defense screwed up. It's only a very small part of the story. As I've posted, there is no stat that proves anything about 3B coach ability.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-19: Brewers (Woodruff) at Braves (Foltynewicz) [Brewers win, 3-2 in 10 innings -- Solo HRs from Yelich, Hiura, Gamel; Woodruff lasts 8 IP]
Posted: May 21, 2019, 1:55 PM Post
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Though a fair point, I’m not sure either of those are the issue the poster has here. This seems like the typical complaint about too many guys getting thrown out, which again, isn’t anything other than average for the Brewers.

I’d bet every fan base complains about their 3B coach, honestly. Sedar is probably no different from the rest.


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