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2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) [Brewers win, 8-6 -- After just one hit through 6 innings the Brewers bat around in a 5-run 7th inning]

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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 8:40 PM Post
Posts: 18985
Baldkin said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
adambr2 said:

I don't disagree that they need another high leverage pen arm. Maybe it will end up being Burnes. Maybe Peralta. Maybe Houser. Maybe Will Smith, maybe Ken Giles, maybe Shane Greene. But the guys you have right now you're still kind of biting your nails if it isn't Hader. Albers has done a good job lately, but I still don't really trust him as that guy.


I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.


They were 48-7 last year in games he pitched and 27-4 so far this year.

I'll never question Counsell on his bullpen management.


I mean, that stat is pretty misleading. Hader generally never pitches without a lead, so that number is pretty expected. But I do agree Counsell is generally a good pen manager.


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Online  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 8:47 PM Post
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The Brewers are now 15-5 combined against the Pirates and Reds in 2019. Nice to see them beating up on those division foes so far this season.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 8:57 PM Post
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Also good seeing the Cubs struggle against them.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:02 PM Post
Posts: 2352
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
adambr2 said:

I don't disagree that they need another high leverage pen arm. Maybe it will end up being Burnes. Maybe Peralta. Maybe Houser. Maybe Will Smith, maybe Ken Giles, maybe Shane Greene. But the guys you have right now you're still kind of biting your nails if it isn't Hader. Albers has done a good job lately, but I still don't really trust him as that guy.


I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:06 PM Post
Posts: 1219
Btw. Brewers were a rare underdog tonight. Only slightly


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:08 PM Post
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Bulldogboy said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
adambr2 said:

I don't disagree that they need another high leverage pen arm. Maybe it will end up being Burnes. Maybe Peralta. Maybe Houser. Maybe Will Smith, maybe Ken Giles, maybe Shane Greene. But the guys you have right now you're still kind of biting your nails if it isn't Hader. Albers has done a good job lately, but I still don't really trust him as that guy.


I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


Never mind. It's not worth it. Just not worth it.


Last edited by Joey Meyer Bombs on July 01, 2019, 9:18 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:10 PM Post
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Bulldogboy said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


Not because anyone says so, because the objective data seems to support Hader not being overused based on his ranks relative to other relievers in appearances/IP & the rarity with which he throws on consecutive days.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:12 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
Bulldogboy said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


Not because anyone says so, because the objective data seems to support Hader not being overused based on his ranks relative to other relievers in appearances/IP & the rarity with which he throws on consecutive days.


Thank you for your much more dignified response than mine. I shouldn't get sucked down into the drivel, but it's tough.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:23 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Baldkin said:


They were 48-7 last year in games he pitched and 27-4 so far this year.

I'll never question Counsell on his bullpen management.



I mean, that stat is pretty misleading. Hader generally never pitches without a lead, so that number is pretty expected. But I do agree Counsell is generally a good pen manager.


Misleading, maybe, but he's had a plan and it's worked perfectly.

He was 2nd in WPA/LI last season, JJ was 3rd.

He's first this season.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:24 PM Post
Posts: 1219
sveumrules said:
Bulldogboy said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


Not because anyone says so, because the objective data seems to support Hader not being overused based on his ranks relative to other relievers in appearances/IP & the rarity with which he throws on consecutive days.


Hader is weird in the fact that using him (at least in the brewers mind) shuts him down for a few days. So over use or under use they just aren’t going to go crazy with him

I could see us in a two run game tomorrow and he’s not available. And I’m ok with that. I would prefer him to be full strength in meaningful games in September.

Losing knebel sucked for that fact alone


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:28 PM Post
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willie key said:

Hader is weird in the fact that using him (at least in the brewers mind) shuts him down for a few days. So over use or under use they just aren’t going to go crazy with him

I could see us in a two run game tomorrow and he’s not available. And I’m ok with that. I would prefer him to be full strength in meaningful games in September.

Losing knebel sucked for that fact alone


It was kind of an under-the-radar move at the time, but I get the feeling that they were depending on Bobby Wahl to be a big contributor in the pen as well. It's a wonder the pen has been as effective as it has given those losses. I imagine that another pen arm is probably priority #1.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:30 PM Post
Posts: 1295
JJ having a tough stretch
8 runs in his last 7 innings.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:31 PM Post
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I think both Corbin and Freddie could really solidify the pen when on and hopefully that will continue. I still think they will add a bullpen are but not a back end guy.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:32 PM Post
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I think is Corbin is on he can really take the role of Knebel.


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Online  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:37 PM Post
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yourout said:
JJ having a tough stretch
8 runs in his last 7 innings.

Not disputing that he hasn’t been great lately, but as pointed out on the telecast tonight’s run allowed was a byproduct of the defensive indifference allowing the runner on 1st base to advance to 2nd.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
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brewmann04 said:
I think is Corbin is on he can really take the role of Knebel.


If Burnes can get out his own way mentally, he certainly has the stuff to excel in the back end of the pen. That was on full display tonight. Finding consistency is key for him ... well, and not grooving fastballs.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:41 PM Post
Posts: 2352
sveumrules said:
Bulldogboy said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I also don't disagree that they could use another back end arm. But the narrative that they are overusing or misusing Hader is obviously false.

Obviously? Because you say so?? Again the fact that you don't agree doesn't make the other point of view wrong but I think you know that since I have to correct you just about every day.


Not because anyone says so, because the objective data seems to support Hader not being overused based on his ranks relative to other relievers in appearances/IP & the rarity with which he throws on consecutive days.

I do not disagree with what the stats say but I do believe that if no moves are made and the stress level of the second half continues to grow the chances of having to push Hader to a level that may wear on him increase. Does anyone not agree that the Brewers need an additional high leverage option or we all good with a closer pitching twice a week and winging it the rest of the week??


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:46 PM Post
Posts: 1219
People really love Corbin

He should be starting. He should be a second closer. He should be only a high leverage guy

Man. I don’t know yet about him. He needs to just put some decent appearances together.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:48 PM Post
Posts: 1219
yourout said:
JJ having a tough stretch
8 runs in his last 7 innings.



He was never going to be as good as last year. Especially not being in shape to start the season

Guerra being our high leverage guy kind of sucks.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-01: Brewers (Houser) at Reds (Mahle) 6:10 PM CDT
Posted: July 01, 2019, 9:50 PM Post
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Bulldogboy said:
I do not disagree with what the stats say but I do believe that if no moves are made and the stress level of the second half continues to grow the chances of having to push Hader to a level that may wear on him increase. Does anyone not agree that the Brewers need an additional high leverage option or we all good with a closer pitching twice a week and winging it the rest of the week??


That wasn't the part of your post that people were calling you on. I think most every fan here sees a need in the pen. I'm sure there is an urge at times to use Hader more often, but I give them credit to sticking to the plan regarding his usage. The Brewers really haven't done anything wrong Hader-wise, and after almost two full seasons of use, I doubt they are suddenly going to start misusing him now.


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