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2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]

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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]
Posted: July 05, 2019, 7:28 AM Post
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OnTheBlack said:
mtrebs said:
For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.



Wow...this is a comically absurd post. First paragraph, stop asking really stupid rhetorical questions. Why not give us some answers?

As for taking a team that lost 102 games and arbitrarily picking a stretch in which they had a similar run as this current team, that may be the single dumbest "justification" I've ever seen! Just comically ridiculous.

3rd, "just because I see the Brewers for who they are," really challenges the rest of this post, but could actually be the most obnoxious. This is like someone announcing to people that "I'm just a realist." As if all the rest of the people giving THEIR measured opinions openly call themselves pessimists or optimists.

You see the Brewers as YOU see them, not "for who they are." When they're struggling, the most whinny fans will latch on and complain about everything and seemingly revel in the joy they get from doing it. I guess that's normal for a team that's so far out of the playoffs going into the ASB.....right? I mean, if they're garbage, they HAVE to be like last years O's and 60 games back by now? Oh...that's right, they were still atop the division heading into the 4th of July.


These questions are stupid? And asking me to solve them isn't? If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office. The problem is that I don't think the Brewers management has the answer for them. Even worse, I don't know if there is an answer for them. The off-season decisions, along with unfortunate injuries, mind-boggling player regressions, and questionable approaches at the plate have this team with a lot of holes and room for improvement. The point of these questions was that the things I was asking were things that the Brewers keep doing to lose games/series. They keep finding different ways to lose.

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season. if this years team can't play better than the worst team in franchise history, than that's a problem, especially considering this was supposed to be the "easy" stretch of the season. Now, 14-16 by itself doesn't seem too bad, but in the games that they are losing they aren't playing good fundamental baseball. That's where the frustration comes in. You play poorly and make stupid mistakes, I'll call your play during that time garbage, no matter what your record is.

How do you see the Brewers? Do you think they are more than a mediocre team? Why? What do they do consistently that makes you think that? I struggle to find reasons why someone would think so.

I take no joy when watching the Brewers struggle. I am a die-hard fan of this team and had high expectations after last season. They aren't meeting my expectations. A team can still have a decent record and still play like garbage. A lot of people look at their record or standings and see that they still are in it for this season. While that is true, the team's level of play over the last few weeks has been poor, and they could be in a lot better position than where they are at. So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great. I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]
Posted: July 05, 2019, 7:52 AM Post
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Ennder said:
mtrebs said:
As is tradition, the Brewers are complete garbage going in to the All-Star break. #SameOldBrewers.


The Brewers went 8-2 before the all star break in 2017. They went 10-4 in 2015. They were bad in 2016 and 2018. It is almost like it is just random noise.


I admit that it isn’t always going into the All-Star break when they tend to have their stretch where they can barely win a game. They do often have a mid-season swoon that really hurts their chances. Last year they were able to overcome it with a miraculous run at the end of the season. I would be very surprised if this year’s team can turn it around and do as well as last year.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Happy Fourth of July!]
Posted: July 05, 2019, 9:43 AM Post
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Location: Green Bay for the summer!
Eye Black said:
It is sort of amazing that the pitching has improved at the exact same time the offense has gone into a complete hibernation.


You speak the truth. The pitching in that series in Cincy wasn't bad and we can win with that. But if you can't score it won't matter. It is alarming how poor our hitting is and how prone we are to striking out. If this isn't fixed soon we are toast - even tho we are still tied for first right now. The ONLY reason we aren't in the cellar is because the rest of the division is beating each other up. [sad]


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]
Posted: July 05, 2019, 9:49 AM Post
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Location: Green Bay for the summer!
Austin Tatious said:
Even the biggest contrarian or Brewer homer ill-equipped to handle any negativity would have to agree that the loss of Derek Johnson has been a double whammy. Not only is the Brewer staff largely in disarray, but Johnson has helped a divisional rival.


I think your assertion that the problem is our pitching doesn't hold water. We scored a grand total of 12 runs in that 4 game series and gave up 13. The only reason that doesn't look as dreadful as it actually was is because we scored 8 in the first game and 4 in the final 3. That ain't gonna cut it if we don't turn this mess around quick.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]
Posted: July 05, 2019, 6:19 PM Post
Posts: 1232
mtrebs said:
OnTheBlack said:
mtrebs said:
For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.



Wow...this is a comically absurd post. First paragraph, stop asking really stupid rhetorical questions. Why not give us some answers?

As for taking a team that lost 102 games and arbitrarily picking a stretch in which they had a similar run as this current team, that may be the single dumbest "justification" I've ever seen! Just comically ridiculous.

3rd, "just because I see the Brewers for who they are," really challenges the rest of this post, but could actually be the most obnoxious. This is like someone announcing to people that "I'm just a realist." As if all the rest of the people giving THEIR measured opinions openly call themselves pessimists or optimists.

You see the Brewers as YOU see them, not "for who they are." When they're struggling, the most whinny fans will latch on and complain about everything and seemingly revel in the joy they get from doing it. I guess that's normal for a team that's so far out of the playoffs going into the ASB.....right? I mean, if they're garbage, they HAVE to be like last years O's and 60 games back by now? Oh...that's right, they were still atop the division heading into the 4th of July.


These questions are stupid? And asking me to solve them isn't? If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office. The problem is that I don't think the Brewers management has the answer for them. Even worse, I don't know if there is an answer for them. The off-season decisions, along with unfortunate injuries, mind-boggling player regressions, and questionable approaches at the plate have this team with a lot of holes and room for improvement. The point of these questions was that the things I was asking were things that the Brewers keep doing to lose games/series. They keep finding different ways to lose.

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season. if this years team can't play better than the worst team in franchise history, than that's a problem, especially considering this was supposed to be the "easy" stretch of the season. Now, 14-16 by itself doesn't seem too bad, but in the games that they are losing they aren't playing good fundamental baseball. That's where the frustration comes in. You play poorly and make stupid mistakes, I'll call your play during that time garbage, no matter what your record is.

How do you see the Brewers? Do you think they are more than a mediocre team? Why? What do they do consistently that makes you think that? I struggle to find reasons why someone would think so.

I take no joy when watching the Brewers struggle. I am a die-hard fan of this team and had high expectations after last season. They aren't meeting my expectations. A team can still have a decent record and still play like garbage. A lot of people look at their record or standings and see that they still are in it for this season. While that is true, the team's level of play over the last few weeks has been poor, and they could be in a lot better position than where they are at. So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great. I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.


These questions are stupid?


Yes.

And asking me to solve them isn't?


Nope. If you're going to assert that we're so much worse than the average at about a dozen things, but doing so by asking the question, I don't think it's stupid to ask you to compare how we are vs pitchers making their debut's vs other teams for instance.
If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office.


Hmmm...doubt it. You'd still be a reactionary fan comparing this team to the 2002 100 loss team because at one point in the season they had the same or a similar record as that 100 loss team and then using that to justify why this team is so terrible.

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season.


Nope, but again, you just going back and looking for a team that went 14-16 over 30 games and then randomly trying to compare the two isn't about sample size, it's about ridiculous cherry picking.
The off-season decisions


Please list the bevy of poor off-season decisions this team made or why this front office isn't up to the challenge?
So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great.


Please show me where I said I'm "happy" with where they're at? Just because I'm not ranting and finding random obscure stretches with teams that played nearly 20 years ago that were similar to this years team doesn't mean I'm
"happy."
I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.


Read; I'll continue to nonsensical anecdotal evidence(struggles vs pitchers making their debut?) and stomp my feet and throw a tantrum until they play like I want them to.


Hey, the Cardinals won the World Series in 2006(So more recently than your random 2002 example) while winning 83 games. And what does that have to do with this years Brewers team? No idea, just thought I'd match your ridiculous comp with another.


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Offline  Re: 2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]
Posted: July 06, 2019, 6:35 AM Post
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OnTheBlack - This will be my last reply to this thread as we could go on with this for the rest of our lives, and likely without much success. You're missing the point of where I was going with a lot of this. The reason I asked all those questions wasn't to really get answer, but instead to point out all the situations where the Brewers have underperformed this season. I admit that the original post referred to not playing well coming into the ASB and some of these were things that happened prior to the season, or earlier in the season, so the scope has become larger, but everything still points back to areas where the team has been disappointing in my eyes.

You brought up the Brewers vs. pitchers making MLB debuts twice in that last reply so I actually looked it up. I couldn't find resources that could get me everything without spending a lot of time assembling it, but from what I see the Brewers faced two starters making their MLB debut this year (5/28 Devin Smeltzer - MIN and 6/18 Logan Allen - SD). The Brewers went (6 IP, 0 ER, 3 H, 0 BB, 7 K) and (7 IP, 0 ER, 3 H, 2 BB, 5 K), respectively. Devin Smeltzer only had one other start after that: 6.1 IP, 5 ER (4 HR), 5 H, 3 BB, 2 K. Logan Allen has had three more starts for a total of: 11 IP, 9 ER, 17 H, 4 BB, 8 K. The Brewers struggled mightily against these two guys that haven't done very well since.

You also missed the point of comparing the 30 game stretch prior to the ASB (well, at least up to July 4). The point was that the Brewers haven't been playing well during that period. They've played no better than the stretch of their worst season ever during that period. If they are going to be in a position to be contenders, they should be playing better than their worst season ever. That is all.

And, yes, I'm reactionary. But stomping my feet and throwing a tantrum? Grow up, man.


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