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2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]

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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:45 PM Post
Posts: 916
I think the primary problem with the team is hitting. We have not scored more than 5 runs in a game since July 23rd in a 14-6 loss to the Reds.

Andy Haines?

Shaw went way south this season.
Aguilar went way south this season in more ways than one.
Cain went way south this season.
Arcia has dipped more this season ... he looks like he is afraid of getting hit all the time.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:46 PM Post
Posts: 2306
Oxy said:
adambr2 said:
Sorry Oxy, the Cubs are better than us. A lot better than us.


They weren't last weekend. And don't be sorry. I just have a hard time criticizing Stearns for this year, and I don't know what deals or moves he COULD have made but DIDN'T make. If the Aguilar and Dubon deals are any indication, we were neither going to get great value by selling our expiring contracts OR by buying a true upgrade. Things are still looking better THIS year AND for future years than they have for 25 out of the past 30 years.


What level of something do you need to make it better than nothing?


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:51 PM Post
Posts: 1917
Where is my guy who was bashing me for saying this team is helpless against left handed pitching by quoting me ops numbers? Don't let numbers get in the way of the facts. Having a team full of left handed bats doesn't make the Cubs a good matchup. This was why I didn't understand the Grisham call up at the time. Well maybe he'll get back in there tomorrow.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:51 PM Post
Posts: 841
Location: Wisconsin
Brew4U said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Pitching doesn't matter when you can't score.

The players being paid to get hits against left-handed pitching have been the biggest letdown this year. That's why every team is starting crap lefties against us.


Didn’t we have a post show that our stats and record are damn sad the same against both hands?


Those numbers might tell part of the story, but when I looked the Brewers are averaging about a half a run less in games started by lefties (including games started by crap lefties) than games started by righties.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:51 PM Post
Posts: 17967
Oxy said:
adambr2 said:
Sorry Oxy, the Cubs are better than us. A lot better than us.


They weren't last weekend. And don't be sorry. I just have a hard time criticizing Stearns for this year, and I don't know what deals or moves he COULD have made but DIDN'T make. If the Aguilar and Dubon deals are any indication, we were neither going to get great value by selling our expiring contracts OR by buying a true upgrade. Things are still looking better THIS year AND for future years than they have for 25 out of the past 30 years.


That's more of a sorry statement about our franchise history than anything positive right now.

I don't totally disagree with your 4th sentence, but the Dubon trade was just silly and made no sense either for now or the future. At the end of the day it just looks like Stearns fell in love with Ray Black's arm and couldn't help himself. I find it almost naive that he thinks they can make something out of Ray Black when he's been in the organization probably best in baseball at developing pitchers for 6 seasons and they haven't been able to harness him into anything useful whatsoever. Every organization thinks they have a Ray Black. We thought Jacob Barnes was the next great reliever at one time. We thought Taylor Williams was, too. Probably 5% of these guys end up amounting to anything resembling a useful MLB reliever.

The Cubs have at least of good of a lineup if not better, probably a slightly better pen and a far, far better rotation. I mean it's really not that complicated. How they stacked against up against us in one particular regular season series is irrelevant, the Orioles could be better than the Yankees in one series.


Last edited by adambr2 on August 03, 2019, 3:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:52 PM Post
Posts: 31
The team held serve for a while and did well. Once It was announced that Woodruff was out 6 weeks it was clear this team should have sold. End of story.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 3:55 PM Post
Posts: 1917
schmidtac20 said:
The team held serve for a while and did well. Once It was announced that Woodruff was out 6 weeks it was clear this team should have sold. End of story.

This is pretty much right on. Tough call but I said sell as well. Especially guys who won't be back. If anyone wants Cain in the off season I would pull the trigger. His deal is going to look gross the next 3 years.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:00 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2131
adambr2 said:
Oxy said:
adambr2 said:
Sorry Oxy, the Cubs are better than us. A lot better than us.


They weren't last weekend. And don't be sorry. I just have a hard time criticizing Stearns for this year, and I don't know what deals or moves he COULD have made but DIDN'T make. If the Aguilar and Dubon deals are any indication, we were neither going to get great value by selling our expiring contracts OR by buying a true upgrade. Things are still looking better THIS year AND for future years than they have for 25 out of the past 30 years.


That's more of a sorry statement about our franchise history than anything positive right now.

I don't totally disagree with your 4th sentence, but the Dubon trade was just silly and made no sense either for now or the future. At the end of the day it just looks like Stearns fell in love with Ray Black's arm and couldn't help himself.

The Cubs have at least of good of a lineup if not better, probably a slightly better pen and a far, far better rotation. I mean it's really not that complicated. How they stacked against up against us in one particular regular season series is irrelevant, the Orioles could be better than the Yankees in one series.


I agree. Dubon could have been handy as an optionable IF depth piece the next couple of years, and the Pom/Black return was underwhelming. Still it's a minor trade that will likely be completely negligible whether we made it or not. I'm glad we didn't try to make a bigger splash (buying or selling) that would have had bigger consequences.

Then again, we haven't had a good history the last 6 years of letting middle IFers go...Stearns needs Black to really turn out.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:00 PM Post
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Posts: 12679
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Bulldogboy said:
schmidtac20 said:
The team held serve for a while and did well. Once It was announced that Woodruff was out 6 weeks it was clear this team should have sold. End of story.

This is pretty much right on. Tough call but I said sell as well. Especially guys who won't be back. If anyone wants Cain in the off season I would pull the trigger. His deal is going to look gross the next 3 years.


Yeah, I’d ride with an OF of:
LF: Braun/Grisham
CF: Gamel/Grisham
RF: Yelich/Gamel

And find maybe a 5th that can play OF/IF that’s right handed.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:01 PM Post
Posts: 17967
Is there any chance a team would claim Cain if he were waived? Letting him walk for nothing in August might not be a bad idea if a contender wanted to make that claim now.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) 1:20 PM CDT
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:03 PM Post
Posts: 841
Location: Wisconsin
liveforoctober said:
Brew4U said:
Starting to get the feeling that this team has quit or begun to. They see the writing on the wall with this roster as constructed.


We should give Yelich a few days off I think.


I think there’s about a 90 percent chance that Yelich’s back or something is hurting. All great hitters go through slumps, but Yelich has looked horrible at the plate this week. Even before that, he was striking out a lot more and driving the ball a lot less than he has since he’s been with the Brewers. He’s taking more strikes and missing pitches that he usually mashes. He’s such a good hitter that he still can flare a hit to left field or ground one through the infield once in awhile, but he looks like a shell of the hitter that he was earlier in the year and all of last year.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:04 PM Post
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Posts: 12679
Location: Milwaukee, WI
adambr2 said:
Is there any chance a team would claim Cain if he were waived? Letting him walk for nothing in August might not be a bad idea if a contender wanted to make that claim now.


Tampa could use him.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:04 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Is there any chance a team would claim Cain if he were waived? Letting him walk for nothing in August might not be a bad idea if a contender wanted to make that claim now.


We are still at least 2 weeks of poor play away from this, but a large part of me hopes it happens.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:05 PM Post
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Posts: 12679
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Is there any chance a team would claim Cain if he were waived? Letting him walk for nothing in August might not be a bad idea if a contender wanted to make that claim now.


Tampa and Cleveland could use him.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:07 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Is there any chance a team would claim Cain if he were waived? Letting him walk for nothing in August might not be a bad idea if a contender wanted to make that claim now.


Tampa could use him.


No way they take on that contract. I already miss the August waiver wire deals. Anderson, Jeffress, Moose and Grandal are candidates as well.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:08 PM Post
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Posts: 18636
adambr2 said:
A gutted farm system and a mediocre MLB team. We are back to 2012-15 just as fast as we got out of it. What was the point of ushering Melvin out when the approach hasn't changed at all?


Sounds like me the last couple of years and this is exactly what I was worried about. Never really bottomed out, got lucky for a couple years with Casey McGehee like players like Shaw, traded prospects and now we're back exactly where we were except now the fan base probably won't tolerate a several year rebuild like they would've been willing to in 2015.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:14 PM Post
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Posts: 7990
TJseven7 said:
Brew4U said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Pitching doesn't matter when you can't score.

The players being paid to get hits against left-handed pitching have been the biggest letdown this year. That's why every team is starting crap lefties against us.


Didn’t we have a post show that our stats and record are damn sad the same against both hands?


Yes, but the premise is flawed anyway. The team is averaging 4.8 runs per game. That up considerably from last year.

The runs allowed is up a full run. That's not the story today, but that's the story.


Premise is far from flawed. Runs per game are up across baseball. Offense wasn't consistent last year either. It is worse this year, though.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:22 PM Post
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Posts: 2131
trwi7 said:
adambr2 said:
A gutted farm system and a mediocre MLB team. We are back to 2012-15 just as fast as we got out of it. What was the point of ushering Melvin out when the approach hasn't changed at all?


Sounds like me the last couple of years and this is exactly what I was worried about. Never really bottomed out, got lucky for a couple years with Casey McGehee like players like Shaw, traded prospects and now we're back exactly where we were except now the fan base probably won't tolerate a several year rebuild like they would've been willing to in 2015.


The only veteran signing that might hamstring us a bit is Cain. And if you are actually going to say that you regret the Yelich trade you are straight up lying. We've had no pitchers step up this year other than Woodruff, and we had a lot of guys who could/should have. That's not on Stearns, and is mostly unavoidable (unless DJ was retainable?)


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:29 PM Post
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Posts: 18636
Oxy said:
trwi7 said:
adambr2 said:
A gutted farm system and a mediocre MLB team. We are back to 2012-15 just as fast as we got out of it. What was the point of ushering Melvin out when the approach hasn't changed at all?


Sounds like me the last couple of years and this is exactly what I was worried about. Never really bottomed out, got lucky for a couple years with Casey McGehee like players like Shaw, traded prospects and now we're back exactly where we were except now the fan base probably won't tolerate a several year rebuild like they would've been willing to in 2015.


The only veteran signing that might hamstring us a bit is Cain. And if you are actually going to say that you regret the Yelich trade you are straight up lying. We've had no pitchers step up this year other than Woodruff, and we had a lot of guys who could/should have. That's not on Stearns, and is mostly unavoidable (unless DJ was retainable?)


So basically the only veteran signing he's made? He also didn't trade Braun when he had the chance, which is currently hamstringing us and we didn't have many elite pitching prospects, so asking them to step up and perform is probably going to have mixed results. So yes, all of this is on Stearns.

As far as the Yelich trade, what exactly is that getting us? An MVP surrounded by a bunch of players that are good enough to get us 81-85 wins.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 4:38 PM Post
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trwi7 said:

So basically the only veteran signing he's made? He also didn't trade Braun when he had the chance, which is currently hamstringing us and we didn't have many elite pitching prospects, so asking them to step up and perform is probably going to have mixed results. So yes, all of this is on Stearns.

As far as the Yelich trade, what exactly is that getting us? An MVP surrounded by a bunch of players that are good enough to get us 81-85 wins.


That's fair. Braun could have been traded a few years ago and we could have kept Santana and had whatever pieces we got back for Braun (basically anything if his whole contract was traded as well). Santana and Braun are very similar players production wise but obviously far different salary wise. Although last June Santana was on the verge of flaming out of the league, so all this 20/20 hindsight stuff is a little silly. We are really only 5 or 6 wins from having a nice division lead and everything mostly being hunky-dory.

ALSO: Last year was a blast, and we were inches from a WS. That was fun.


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