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2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]

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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 6:51 PM Post
Posts: 3800
willie key said:
I have a feeling these in game threads will be a ghost town ten games from now

If they can't even take two of three from the Pirates, it will only be four games.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 7:26 PM Post
Posts: 742
Brew4U said:
Oxy said:
Brew4U said:
Brewers hitters with 10+ ABs on this road trip:

.368 Arcia (7-for-19)
.353 Braun (6-for-17)
.350 Moose (7-for-20)
.214 Thames: (3-for-14)
.182 Yelich (4-for-22)
.176 Cain (3-for-17)
.167 Hiura (3-for-18)
.167 Grandal (3-for-18)


Yelich, Hiura and Grandal are really letting this team down!


On the road trip, yep, they are. Cain is just a flat out let down for the season though.


Grandal hasn't hit for over a month..220 and 1 homerun over last 30 games.


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Online  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 7:34 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
yourout said:
Grandal hasn't hit for over a month..220 and 1 homerun over last 30 games.


I’ve said it before that they may have rode him too hard earlier in the head. Legs are dead.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 7:46 PM Post
Posts: 3680
Grandal has always been a streak hitter. He'll get hot again

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Online  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 7:55 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
3and2Fastball said:
Grandal has always been a streak hitter. He'll get hot again


At this point it might be nice if he didn’t so we can try to retain him.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 10:22 PM Post
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Posts: 6007
trwi7 said:
He also didn't trade Braun when he had the chance, which is currently hamstringing us

Just stop with this. Braun has been ~.800 OPS player each of the last two years. Is he worth his contract? Probably not, but he's not even remotely hamstringing the organization. Albert Pujols is hamstringing an organization. Robinson Cano is hamstringing an organization. Johnny Cueto is hamstringing an organization. Joey Votto is hamstringing an organization. Braun is not only more productive than any of those players, he's also being paid less, and can be off the books after next season if needed. The Brewers can always structure a contract to backload it to after Braun is off the books.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 10:54 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
Is he worth his contract? Probably not.


Glad you agree that he’s hamstringing us. Bringing up worse contracts does not help your argument and doesn’t mean that Braun’s contract isn’t hamstringing us.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 03, 2019, 11:14 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
LouisEly said:
Is he worth his contract? Probably not.


Glad you agree that he’s hamstringing us. Bringing up worse contracts does not help your argument and doesn’t mean that Braun’s contract isn’t hamstringing us.


Well, people keep saying something like 1.0 WAR is worth $8M or something like that. Obviously it changes year-to-year, but Braun is probably a 1-2 WAR guy who is "worth" a bit more than that due to pedigree, legacy, still playing for the team that drafted him, etc.

So he's slightly overpaid. I would agree with Ely though and say that his contract isn't really hamstringing us...


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 04, 2019, 1:59 AM Post
Posts: 2306
Brewcrewin07 said:
Oxy said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
I have said it once, and I will keep saying it...although it hasn't been the biggest issue this year, until Stearns wisens up and realizes that he is going to have to spend BIG $$ on Free agent pitchers or find a way to acquire one, this is what's always going to happen with a team like the Brewers. You CANNOT continue to trot out guys like Zach Davies and be taken seriously. But I bet nothing changes next year...Peralta, and for sure Burnes will be right back in the rotation because Stearns will say "we have confidence in them". Then some scrub will get signed to take Chacin's spot...rinse and repeat, year after year.


Do you remember last year? That was only...1 year ago...


Yes, and if you remember, Corbin Burnes was great out of the bullpen last year(used as a starter this year, disaster from the beginning), Chacin had a career year(fluky), But he also had a veteran in Wade Miley(ZERO reason he shouldn't have brought him back), and his acquisition of Gio was good(should have brought him back too). He put WAY too much faith in three young arms(plus a terrible Zach Davies) to carry them..No idea what he was thinking...other than he had to be the only one that actually thought that was going to work. Gio NEEDS to be back next year and he NEEDS to find another anchor or two for the rotation. It starts there. Guys that can give you 6 or 7 consistently(or more put guys that he will let go 6 or 7), and run with it. Until he finds that anchor or two for the rotation(to go with Woody), it will be same old same old(unless lightning strikes again).

My targets are Gerritt Cole, Stephen Strasburg(if he opts out), Madison Bumgarner, Zach Wheeler and Wade Miley(again)


Did you not hear him the 1st time? We absolutely do not need those mammoth contract arms. We proved that last year and point to it in your response. Miley would have been great to have. That's not a big price tag guy. Burnes imploding not only in the rotation but in the pen hurt this team a lot.

Woodruff, Davies, Anderson, Gio have absolutely done their jobs. Stay under 4 ERA. If you can pitch over 5 IP per game even better. If we started the year with Miley Woodruff Davies Anderson and Gio... Chacin, Peralta and Burnes wouldn't have destroyed our starters ERA. They tried to push the kids into the rotation. It failed. They didn't have same rotational depth as last year because instead of having vets up to start, they started the kids up. It didn't work, but the LAST THING this franchise needs to do is pay 30mil for 1 pitcher who will be shot by the time the contract ends.

Team needs 4 era arms who can last over 5 innings. Team needs to load up their pen with guys who have starter stuff. Houser Peralta Hader is a great start. Hopefully Knebel and Devin Williams can add onto that. Claudio when used right has been good enough as well. That could be 6 of the 8 you need. 3 of the 5 starters needed are in place for next year as well.

At this point I would absolutely kill to see this team act like they did last year going forward.
Woodruff for 6 Houser for 2 Knebel 1
Anderson for 5 Hader for 2 Claudio .1 Peralta 1.2
Davies for 5.1 Devin for .2 Rasmussen for 2 Knebel for 1
Miley 4 Houser 2 Faria 2 Claudio 1 (cuz its a blowout)
Gio 4.2 Devin 1.1 Peralta 1 Hader 1 Knebel 1

With the 26th roster spot... I didn't even use Ray Black

I'd kill to see that baseball again. Starters pulled after 2 times through and relievers getting 1 time through or 2 ip. Use the metrics to our advantage. This is one of the reasons you draft college advanced pitching!


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 04, 2019, 2:41 AM Post
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Posts: 9797
This team will come in at 500. But this is a big offseason for our GM. I think you see more than a few changes with the hitters as well as pitchers.


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Online  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:27 AM Post
Posts: 17945
LouisEly said:
trwi7 said:
He also didn't trade Braun when he had the chance, which is currently hamstringing us

Joey Votto is hamstringing an organization. Braun is not only more productive than any of those players, he's also being paid less, and can be off the books after next season if needed. The Brewers can always structure a contract to backload it to after Braun is off the books.


Wait wait what? Votto?

WAR by year:

2015 - Votto 7.7, Braun 3.8
2016 - Votto 4.0, Braun 4.4
2017 - Votto 7.4, Braun 1.2
2018 - Votto 3.5, Braun 1.1
2019 - Votto 1.0, Braun 0.9

To somehow say Braun is *not* hamstringing an organization and Votto IS based on recent historical production is completely false and pure unashamed homerism.


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Offline  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:10 AM Post
Posts: 837
Location: Wisconsin
adambr2 said:
LouisEly said:
trwi7 said:
He also didn't trade Braun when he had the chance, which is currently hamstringing us

Joey Votto is hamstringing an organization. Braun is not only more productive than any of those players, he's also being paid less, and can be off the books after next season if needed. The Brewers can always structure a contract to backload it to after Braun is off the books.


Wait wait what? Votto?

WAR by year:

2015 - Votto 7.7, Braun 3.8
2016 - Votto 4.0, Braun 4.4
2017 - Votto 7.4, Braun 1.2
2018 - Votto 3.5, Braun 1.1
2019 - Votto 1.0, Braun 0.9

To somehow say Braun is *not* hamstringing an organization and Votto IS based on recent historical production is completely false and pure unashamed homerism.


Not when you factor in what they are being paid and, more significantly, the fact that the Reds still owe Votto $25 million per year for each of the next 4 years.


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Online  Re: 2019-08-03: Brewers (González) at Cubs (Hamels) [Brewers lose, 4-1 -- Offense continues to struggle; Bullpen allows 3 runs over final 2 innings]
Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:56 AM Post
Posts: 17945
So nearly 5 WAR a year for the last 5 years for 25M a year = hamstrung, just over 2 WAR a year for 20M a year= not hamstrung.

Sounds totally subjective and makes no sense.

Yes, the Reds were dumb to pay Votto out til he's 40, but to act like Votto is just a total unproductive slug now and Braun is still great and totally worth it is just being biased. Votto has been much, much better than Braun the last 5 years. We just happened to be through most of Braun's "bad" years. (Bad meaning value relative to his price tag).Maybe Votto will be hamstringing the Reds in 3 years Chris Davis style, but holding him to the Braun standard, he isn't right now.


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