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2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) [Brewers win, 10-1]

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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#41

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:32 PM Post
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He's better than Ricky Weeks. [wink] [laughing]


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#42

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:33 PM Post
Posts: 6397
As long as Hiura keeps doing things like that, you can live with his defense.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#43

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:33 PM Post
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The defense will get better. The bat is special.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#44

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:33 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Bulldogboy said:
Braun at first base and Hiura in left is looking more likely every day.


Has Hiura ever played in the OF? Does he have any kind of an arm to play out there?

I'd like to see Braun at 1B, however, you can't just take anyone and throw them out in the OF.

I think he's athletic enough to do it. Generally your weakest arm plays left think Kris Davis. I think if they work with him in the spring he could pull it off.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#45

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:34 PM Post
Posts: 1311
Give up one and then score two. Hiura is like one of those bad defensive basketball players


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#46

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:34 PM Post
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Pugger said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I don't want to hear another person try to tell me the Brewers ere'd in sending Keston down back in the early part of the season. It's because he can't play defense. Plain and simple.


And if you can't play defense you belong in the AL.


I mean if you hit two run homers every time you commit an error you can play in the NL

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#47

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:34 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I don't want to hear another person try to tell me the Brewers messed up in sending Keston down back in the early part of the season. It's because he can't play defense. Plain and simple.


I disagree, He wasn't sent down because of his defense, he was sent down so we could give Shaw another shot to get right. Shaw failed, and in the meantime, our offense had continued to fail as well. Hiura is a major boost to the offense, that can't be argued.

It was still a failure to send him down, defense be damned.


They eventually decided that they needed the bat in the lineup, defense be damned. I still think he was originally sent down because his defense blows. They had a change of heart.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#48

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:36 PM Post
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Bulldogboy said:
turborickey said:
Bulldogboy said:
Braun at first base and Hiura in left is looking more likely every day.


Has Hiura ever played in the OF? Does he have any kind of an arm to play out there?

I'd like to see Braun at 1B, however, you can't just take anyone and throw them out in the OF.

I think he's athletic enough to do it. Generally your weakest arm plays left think Kris Davis. I think if they work with him in the spring he could pull it off.


If all it takes is athleticism, he will be fine at 2B then... He will settle in, I'm confident about that. You can bet he will be drill relentlessly in spring training, probably in the offseason as well.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#49

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:36 PM Post
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True Blue Brew Crew said:
The defense will get better. The bat is special.


Yeah, you don't keep this kid at AAA because of his D at this point.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#50

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:36 PM Post
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Pugger said:
He's better than Ricky Weeks. [wink] [laughing]


I would hold my breath every single time he was hit a routine grounder.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#51

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:37 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
turborickey said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I don't want to hear another person try to tell me the Brewers messed up in sending Keston down back in the early part of the season. It's because he can't play defense. Plain and simple.


I disagree, He wasn't sent down because of his defense, he was sent down so we could give Shaw another shot to get right. Shaw failed, and in the meantime, our offense had continued to fail as well. Hiura is a major boost to the offense, that can't be argued.

It was still a failure to send him down, defense be damned.


They eventually decided that they needed the bat in the lineup, defense be damned. I still think he was originally sent down because his defense blows. They had a change of heart.


Getting Shaw back up so he didn't have hurt feelings was the primary reason Hiura was sent down. That is just an opinion of course...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#52

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:38 PM Post
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homer said:
Pugger said:
He's better than Ricky Weeks. [wink] [laughing]


I would hold my breath every single time he was hit a routine grounder.


For sure, but to be honest, it is getting that way with Hiura too...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#53

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:40 PM Post
Posts: 2714
People saying they sent Hiura back down because of defense are nuts. Braun was a butcher in the field at third base but his bat was crazy so they found a place where it wouldn't hurt them as much. Hiura same kind of bat. You find a place for that bat somewhere.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#54

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:46 PM Post
Posts: 3060
Bulldogboy said:
People saying they sent Hiura back down because of defense are nuts. Braun was a butcher in the field at third base but his bat was crazy so they found a place where it wouldn't hurt them as much. Hiura same kind of bat. You find a place for that bat somewhere.


Yeah, 2nd base.
Leave him be, he’ll get better > book it.

Don’t move him, he’ll get to close to average defensively, and because of the bat, will be outrageously valuable.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#55

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:47 PM Post
Posts: 14284
Pugger said:
He's better than Ricky Weeks. [wink] [laughing]


The sad thing is, he isn’t. He looks worse the Weeks defensively if that is what we are referring to.

And regarding LF that people talk about occasionally...I don’t think that really makes sense. There is no one to replace him at 2B. Not like we have some young stud to get slotted there. Also his arm is really bad, likely worse than Khris Davis. He takes terrible routes on ground balls sometimes...he seems like a guy who would really struggle with OF instincts. Not everyone can play the outfield even though people like to think of it as a place to hide poor defenders. Rickie Weeks, a terrible defensive 2B, was really scary in the OF for SEA/ARI. Look at Eric Thames...it isn’t that easy for many.

I don’t see dumping Thames to move Braun to 1B, move Hiura to LF, and then spend money for a 2B who offensively is likely worse than Thames. You are definitely getting worse offensively and I would almost bet overall the defense gets worse too. Hiura is probably a worse OFer than Braun and Braun is definitely not great at 1B from what little we have seen. The 2B better be Arcia level defensively.

Hiura is really bad, but it is better to just stick him at the position he is uber elite at offensively. He isn’t Ryan Braun at 3B bad...we can live with it. It definitely takes a good hit to his offense but still a All Star level player from what he has produced.


Last edited by MrTPlush on September 21, 2019, 5:48 PM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#56

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:47 PM Post
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You have to just hope he works hard and becomes average at 2b. If he can become average he is elite in value.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#57

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:48 PM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
I"m surprised that wasn"t a hit & an error.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#58

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:51 PM Post
Posts: 6397
Pugger said:
I"m surprised that wasn"t a hit & an error.

It'll be changed. No way Cain gets to second if the ball is fielded cleanly.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#59

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:56 PM Post
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Davies is making me nervous getting behind hitters.


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Online  Re: 2019-09-21: Pirates (Marvel) at Brewers (Davies) 6:10 PM CDT
#60

Posted: September 21, 2019, 5:57 PM Post
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For all the talk of how bad Hiura's defense is, keep in mind he's on pace to be a 5 WAR player for a full season. Braun's defense at 3B was so outlandishly bad in 2007 he was a 2.0 WAR player in 3/4's of a season. Hiura isn't historically bad, he's just bad.


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