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Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??

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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 8:10 AM Post
Posts: 6387
Location: Kenosha, WI
Matt Garza has kind of imploded his value the last couple starts. Brewers are in an awkward spot with him. Leaning towards ditching him in the rotation if they really want to make the postseason.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 8:49 AM Post
Posts: 10730
MrTPlush said:
Matt Garza has kind of imploded his value the last couple starts. Brewers are in an awkward spot with him. Leaning towards ditching him in the rotation if they really want to make the postseason.


I don't think it's all that awkward. Thank him for his efforts and part ways. He'll still collect his checks. With the pitching they have close to the major leagues, there's no way he's been in their plans for 2018 anyway and he's not been pitching well now for nearly a month. They need an alternative to him the rest of the way, either internal or from outside and have today and tomorrow to do something to get a veteran like a Chacin or a Gonzalez.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 8:58 AM Post
Posts: 1699
Location: Madison, WI
Yea I think this is a no brainer at this point. He pitched himself out of the rotation and the option in the offseason. Maybe you start him Sunday if the other guys aren't lined up, but have Suter ready to go when he falters or starts shaky. But that should be his last start. Suter, Jungman, Guerra and skipping the spot on with off days is the way to go. With bye days each of the next two weeks that should help and after that they'll have a pretty good idea where they're at in the standings and if still alive.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 9:11 AM Post
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Garza seemed to take on a leadership/mentor role in the offseason with Luis Ortiz. Maybe you go up to him and tell him that you are putting Woodruff in his spot and bringing up Guerra to fill the fifth. Ask him to pitch out of the pen to cover innings that need to be and mentor a younger pitcher. If he can't do that, then so be it and move on.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Online  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 9:14 AM Post
Posts: 10173
Hopefully he will handle it better than he did last time. I don't see Stearns adding the 'If you want to' at the end of his requesting him to move to the pen like he got the benefit of last time.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 9:44 AM Post
Posts: 170
As the person who started this thread last November there were certain times during the year where I felt I was right in thinking a 2018 Garza at $5 would bring back a nice piece or two. Now I don't even want to bother picking up the option. Roll that money into bringing back Swarzak or Walker.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 10:55 AM Post
Posts: 662
Garza is not significant in any way. Releasing him is the only thing to do at this point. Bad outing again last night. Nobody will want him. Eat the rest of the contract and next year get someone else to be a starter. Woodruff or Hader would be my choice.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 11:51 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
If I can get a starter who's giving me a 3.7 ERA and 6 innings, I'll gladly pay $5 million. Just look at some of the junk that even decent teams are rolling out there in their rotations. Granted Garza isn't going to fetch a great return from a contender at the trading deadline, but you're telling me you couldn't flip him in the offseason to a team that has playoff hopes but is short in the rotation?


I was wrong. Garza is dunzo. The only value in continuing to pitch him is improving the value of 2018's 1st round pick.

Of course, this means he'll sign a minor league deal with the Cardinals and throw up a sub-3.00 ERA next year. Because that would be the Brewers' luck.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 7:31 PM Post
Posts: 2347
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
If I can get a starter who's giving me a 3.7 ERA and 6 innings, I'll gladly pay $5 million. Just look at some of the junk that even decent teams are rolling out there in their rotations. Granted Garza isn't going to fetch a great return from a contender at the trading deadline, but you're telling me you couldn't flip him in the offseason to a team that has playoff hopes but is short in the rotation?


I was wrong. Garza is dunzo. The only value in continuing to pitch him is improving the value of 2018's 1st round pick.

Of course, this means he'll sign a minor league deal with the Cardinals and throw up a sub-3.00 ERA next year. Because that would be the Brewers' luck.

Just like Mark Reynolds.... except the effect was delayed a year 'til 2017. With how putridly he hit in the 2nd half of his year in MIL, who could've seen this coming? This rebound year in COL is worthy of Comeback Player of the Year.

The frequency with which this sort of thing happens with the Cardinals is unbelievable. Heck, even it took 2 months, a full season, and 2 more months -- 112 games' worth -- for "the Cardinals effect" to stop working on Jonathan Broxton and for them to release him at the end of May.

So it would be just the Brewers' luck for the "Cardinals effect" to happen with Garza. That said, with how it's gone with him 3 of his past 5 starts for MIL, at this point I'd send him to StL anyway.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 7:46 PM Post
Posts: 1100
Please say they're pulling the plug on Garza, please!!!!!


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 8:21 PM Post
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I have a feeling that this might be his last start.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 30, 2017, 8:57 PM Post
Posts: 1804
Brew4U said:
MrTPlush said:
Garza has surplus value. How this is still being argued is amazing.


Simply because he's not a liked player. They can spin it any way they want but that's what it comes down to.


Usually when people disagree with you, they have reasons. Disrespecting those people by accusing them of lacking reasons can end up looking bad as time goes by.

Matt Garza, 2015-2017:

2015: xFIP 4.50, bWAR 0.5, salary $12.5 million
2016: xFIP 4.49, bWAR 1.3, salary $12.5 million
2017 (through August): xFIP 5.13, bWAR 0.9, salary (full season) $12.5 million

The main reason a lot of us wanted to dump Garza at many points over the past couple of years is that he's been a bad pitcher. We thought he was likely to be as bad this year as over the past two years. We were wrong; he's been worse.

Now, let me be clear: I dislike Matt Garza intensely. Having him gone would make me happy. But if he's helping the team, who cares what I think of his personality? I sure don't. He's not some domestic abuser, where dumping him is arguably a moral imperative. He's just a jerk. That's not a reason to dump him.

The fact that he was a petulant crybaby who quit on the team when his epic-length leash finally got yanked last year -- that's arguably a reason to dump him. I thought it was. But let's assume I was wrong about that.

He's a bad pitcher. He shouldn't be starting ahead of Woodruff, Guerra, Jungman, Suter when healthy, or for that matter Derby.

Does he have 2018 surplus value now? I have no idea, really. What is he really at this point -- a 5-inning, 5.00 starter? For $5 million? That's some pretty advanced, depressing math. I assume most contenders have a better #5 than him and most noncontenders have young guys they want to audition. Riley argued elsewhere today for putting him on waivers to see if anyone would take him for nothing. That's a fine idea; it would provide at least a baseline for assessing Garza's value.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 31, 2017, 3:01 AM Post
Posts: 301
Brew4U said:
Garza seemed to take on a leadership/mentor role in the offseason with Luis Ortiz. Maybe you go up to him and tell him that you are putting Woodruff in his spot and bringing up Guerra to fill the fifth. Ask him to pitch out of the pen to cover innings that need to be and mentor a younger pitcher. If he can't do that, then so be it and move on.



I can't fathom him doing what he did last year again this year, but I like this approach. He imploded so fast that I just don't see how you can go with him as your #4 when there are SOOO many other guys who are better options right now. How about you give your best starter from last year another shot. Guerra looks REALLY good his first start back and then when he only threw 3 IP despite not giving up any ER's, I understood taking him out of the game and then sending him down, but he's been alright down in AAA, bring him back up and see if you can get him going again.

Jungman looked really good a couple years ago and has survived AAA. Garza looks like a lock for 5IP and 3-4 ER's every time out right now.

He'll still probably get a 5 million dollar+ contract this next year, but let someone else pay it and worry about it. Or pick it up and give him away for any lotter ticket you can get from anyone. Maybe we get another Freddy Peralta. But I'm done looking out at the matchup's and seeing him listed as our projected SP'er. He should have started for the last time if we really want to try and make up the 3-4 game gap we face between AZ, COL and CH the last 30+ games of the year.


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Online  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 31, 2017, 5:13 AM Post
Posts: 10173
I'm all about pulling the plug on Garza, and I feel pretty good about a #1-#4 of Anderson, Nelson, Davies and Woodruff. Only question is, who do you go with at the #5 spot? Guerra? Jungmann? Both have looked very good lately, as you said.

I'd be curious to know on Guerra what the story is, if it's been smoke and mirrors or if his command and velocity are back to where they need to be.


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Online  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: August 31, 2017, 9:57 AM Post
Posts: 10173
Looking at the schedule, Garza's next start lines up against Scherzer.

We might as well take a shot with Jungmann, Guerra or Suter, otherwise it's basically going to be a throwaway game.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: September 04, 2017, 6:43 AM Post
Posts: 10730
adambr2 said:
I'm all about pulling the plug on Garza, and I feel pretty good about a #1-#4 of Anderson, Nelson, Davies and Woodruff. Only question is, who do you go with at the #5 spot? Guerra? Jungmann? Both have looked very good lately, as you said.

I'd be curious to know on Guerra what the story is, if it's been smoke and mirrors or if his command and velocity are back to where they need to be.


Even if the Brewers don't add an arm or two this winter, they go into 2018 with a pretty large group competing for the 5th spot. Foremost is Hader if they decide to move him back to starting. Then it's his job to lose. Suter, Guerra, Jungmann, Derby, Burnes, Diaz, F. Peralta...and on and on will be in Arizona.

Guerra hit 95 yesterday in the 9th inning. If he's back with a mid 90's fastball, he's very much in the mix next year either in the rotation or the pen. I discount the HR he allowed to Zimmerman. Up by 7, and having walked Murphy, he made Zimmerman hit to get on and he did. He followed up by getting Rendon for the final out.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: September 06, 2017, 6:23 PM Post
Posts: 487
Just cut him and stop all the rest of it.


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Online  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: September 07, 2017, 1:24 AM Post
Posts: 10173
I mean there's really no point in cutting ties with him now that rosters have expanded. You can't free up his spot for postseason eligibility for someone else anyway. Just ride out the last month, pass on his option (as far as I know there is no buyout), and be done with it.

But yeah, he shouldn't pitch any more meaningful innings for us.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: September 07, 2017, 5:48 AM Post
Posts: 487
If they cut him he cannot get on the mound.


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Offline  Re: Matt Garza - Significant Trade Asset??
Posted: September 07, 2017, 8:57 PM Post
Posts: 10730
adambr2 said:
I mean there's really no point in cutting ties with him now that rosters have expanded. You can't free up his spot for postseason eligibility for someone else anyway. Just ride out the last month, pass on his option (as far as I know there is no buyout), and be done with it.

But yeah, he shouldn't pitch any more meaningful innings for us.


There is a point in giving him his unconditional release. It frees up a roster spot for a deserving guy like Wilkerson to come up and make a start or two after they are effectively eliminated.


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