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Angel Pagan?

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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#21

Posted: January 21, 2017, 9:44 AM Post
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MKE81 said:
Additionally, Pagan played 4 games in CF last year because they acquired Span as the starter shifting him to LF. The Giants have been a strong defensive team for a while now, that's a major focus for them, and Pagan's been a part of that the past 5yrs. Saying he's not good defensively, while solely citing (defensive) WAR, is outrageous.

Some people believe in WAR - at least to some degree. I don't think anyone takes it as gospel, but it offers a point of reference. If you don't like WAR - that's fine. But 'Outrageous'? Not even close.


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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#22

Posted: January 21, 2017, 9:53 AM Post
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MKE81 said:
Just because there's a decline in defensive ability doesn't mean he's not fine defensively. And you speak as if he wasn't with the Giants last year starting for them. Fangraphs defensive modeling is completely and utterly pointless. They don't even adjust based on defensive shifts, which are insanely common in today's game. There are several variables that make-up one's defensive ability that cannot be measured analytically. So continue to cite defensive WAR as if it's a hard selling point.

I think the numbers indicate a decline as a defensive player - especially as a CF - whether you look at Fangraphs or Baseball Reference or Defensive Runs Saved or UZR or simpley reading what others have had to say about the guy - or watching him play.

I would love to know why you find Fangraphs defensive ratings as completely and utterly pointless. Personally, I don't know much about how they are calculated. So I would like understand why ratings such as Fangraphs - or whatever ranking system - are reliable (or not).

Perhaps it's a great post to start. Again, I don't really know that much about how ratings like Fangraphs are calculated - so someone explaining clearly why they think they work or not would be kind of cool.


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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#23

Posted: April 17, 2017, 7:00 AM Post
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Can anyone explain how Kirk Nieuwenhuis has a major league job and Angel Pagan does not? Ok Pagan was hoping for regular's money and he did fail a physical last month with Orioles. But are Brewers in such dire straits with their payroll that they can't at least offer him what they saved by unloading Gennett?


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Online  Re: Angel Pagan?
#24

Posted: April 17, 2017, 7:19 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Can anyone explain how Kirk Nieuwenhuis has a major league job and Angel Pagan does not? Ok Pagan was hoping for regular's money and he did fail a physical last month with Orioles. But are Brewers in such dire straits with their payroll that they can't at least offer him what they saved by unloading Gennett?



Didn't you just answer your own question? Wanted a lot more money than Kirk and he couldn't pass a physical. Those are two good reasons he's unemployed.


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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#25

Posted: April 17, 2017, 7:27 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Can anyone explain how Kirk Nieuwenhuis has a major league job and Angel Pagan does not? Ok Pagan was hoping for regular's money and he did fail a physical last month with Orioles. But are Brewers in such dire straits with their payroll that they can't at least offer him what they saved by unloading Gennett?



Didn't you just answer your own question? Wanted a lot more money than Kirk and he couldn't pass a physical. Those are two good reasons he's unemployed.

Add in playing time. Pagan might simply be looking for a situation that will get him more playing time (not to mention money). I think it's pretty simple.


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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#26

Posted: April 17, 2017, 7:27 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Can anyone explain how Kirk Nieuwenhuis has a major league job and Angel Pagan does not? Ok Pagan was hoping for regular's money and he did fail a physical last month with Orioles. But are Brewers in such dire straits with their payroll that they can't at least offer him what they saved by unloading Gennett?


If you are a 1-2M player asking for 5, you're going to remain unemployed, pretty simple. Kirk makes less than 1M, and even though you sort of said it as an aside, failing a physical is kind of a big deal, no reason to assume he'd pass one here. I'm no Nieuwy fan as everyone knows...I can see a good chance of him being DFA sometime in the summer and Phillips moving into his role, but Pagan isn't the solution.

I really don't get the payroll argument. Affordability doesn't equal value. If I have $20,000 in my checking and am looking at a beater car for my high school kid worth $1,000, it doesn't mean I am willing to pay $2,500 just because I can afford it. I'll just look for a different car.


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Online  Re: Angel Pagan?
#27

Posted: April 17, 2017, 8:58 AM Post
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adambr2 said:

I really don't get the payroll argument. Affordability doesn't equal value. If I have $20,000 in my checking and am looking at a beater car for my high school kid worth $1,000, it doesn't mean I am willing to pay $2,500 just because I can afford it. I'll just look for a different car.



I like this analogy but unfortunately there are a lot of idiots with money who would.


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Offline  Re: Angel Pagan?
#28

Posted: April 17, 2017, 9:10 PM Post
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I would assume him not being on any team is due to a combination of failing a physical, age, and poor defense.


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