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Outfield

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Offline  Re: Outfield
#21

Posted: May 12, 2017, 7:22 AM Post
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We need SF to get their butts in gear if we want them to be a trading partner.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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#22

Posted: May 12, 2017, 7:57 AM Post
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I'd describe Santana as an adequate​ (barely) starting corner OF. He's streaky offensively as are many barely adequate regulars. With the OF talent in system, Brewers can aim higher. Maybe those guys will prove to be just adequate too but you don't block them with Santana.


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#23

Posted: May 12, 2017, 8:11 AM Post
Posts: 10112
What kind of return is Broxton worth? I mean I think he's at like an .820 OPS again now, if he's around. 800 at the deadline, playing great D in CF and a threat on the bases, we've got like a good year of data now saying he's figured it out and is good, and has 5+ more years of cheap control, you'd have to think he's the most valuable trade chip in the outfield, wouldn't you?


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#24

Posted: May 12, 2017, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 2223
I would certainly think so, especially getting him cost controlled through his prime years, free agent at 33. Out of all of the Brewer outfielders, when considering age, good defense and salary he probably brings back the most with the exception of Brinson.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#25

Posted: May 12, 2017, 8:56 AM Post
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In a perfect world, Santana and Phillips combine into a mega right fielder, Brinson takes over in CF, Braun continues being Braun in left and we trade Broxton at his peak for a pitching prospect.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#26

Posted: May 12, 2017, 8:57 AM Post
Posts: 69
But if Broxton has figured it out and can provide top D in CF with > .800 OPS for 5 years, I want him on our next contending team. If in two years Ray or Clark are banging on the door, then I would look to move Broxton. Moving him now considering how good our starting position players are turning out, unless its for a TOR pitcher who will be up by 2018, would be more of a setback then gain for making the team competitive.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#27

Posted: May 12, 2017, 9:08 AM Post
Posts: 5790
JohnBriggs12 said:
I'd describe Santana as an adequate​ (barely) starting corner OF. He's streaky offensively as are many barely adequate regulars. With the OF talent in system, Brewers can aim higher. Maybe those guys will prove to be just adequate too but you don't block them with Santana.


He hasn't played for an extended period of time yet to know if he's "streaky" or not. If he continues to hit over .800 OPS, that is not "barely adequate." Only 16 corner OF hit over .800 OPS last year in all of MLB.

We don't know what we have yet in Santana, but we will have a better idea by July/ August.


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#28

Posted: May 12, 2017, 9:46 AM Post
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I think the idea of trading Broxton, Santana and even Villar in a pursuit of future TOR (Top Of Rotation) starters is one the Brewers brass needs to be open to.

These are players all at positions of depth and strength for the organization and I think it's a great idea to use them to address the organizations areas of weakness. Namely pitching, but also higher ceiling offensive talent than we currently have in the system.

Instead of being part of the next contending Brewers club, I almost consider those 3 to be part of the next "wave" of trading chips that Stearns will have to work with.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#29

Posted: May 12, 2017, 10:34 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
I think the idea of trading Broxton, Santana and even Villar in a pursuit of future TOR (Top Of Rotation) starters is one the Brewers brass needs to be open to.


Agreed but just not sure if it can happen. Getting TOR type guys will be tough for those three. Just not sure any are elite enough. Maybe paired with each other? I don't know.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#30

Posted: May 12, 2017, 11:14 AM Post
Posts: 5790
Brew4U said:
A Swing and A Drive said:
I think the idea of trading Broxton, Santana and even Villar in a pursuit of future TOR (Top Of Rotation) starters is one the Brewers brass needs to be open to.


Agreed but just not sure if it can happen. Getting TOR type guys will be tough for those three. Just not sure any are elite enough. Maybe paired with each other? I don't know.


Yea, I think it will take a package. Fortunately, the Brewers have enough talent from MLB down to rookie ball to put together an attractive package. But Broxton alone, if he keeps this up, will have tremendous value.


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#31

Posted: May 12, 2017, 12:55 PM Post
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I think Broxton has the lowest floor of the group. I'm not sold on him being able to achieve sustained success at the MLB level due to some tremendous holes in his swing. That being said, his defensive value could keep him in a MLB starting lineup on it's own.

I think the Brewers will do well by trying to sell high on Keon when and if the time is right.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#32

Posted: May 12, 2017, 2:31 PM Post
Posts: 10112
I think you guys may be undervaluing Broxton. Even with the high K count and slumps,, he's been about an .850+ OPS player since the end of last July. If he can sustain at least an .800 OPS through the deadline, I think we have a pretty good case that he's figured things out, and if he has, an. 800 OPS centerfielder with gap power and speed and gold glove caliber defense, with 5 and a half years of cost control to boot, is quite valuable. If that's the guy he is at the deadline, I wouldn't part with him for any less than the DeLeon type return that the Dodgers gave up for Forsythe, if not more.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#33

Posted: May 12, 2017, 4:28 PM Post
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Lets trade out rarity of .800Ops+ OFs for a possible TOR pitcher who we now provide .700+ [hopefully] OFs to provide no run support?

Broxton and Santana have elite exit velocity on balls batted in play. Thinking .800-825 OPS is their tops at this early stage is foolish. Given more time these two have a better chance to be .900+ ops. Im just not a fan to trade some of these guys producing success in years 1/2 in their baseball careers with stats like that that can support a major increase witha subtle iimprovement. You Have the bodies you cross your fingers and hope become in the minors. Lets trade away 4+ years of team control in that for a new Hopes become in the majors? Id rather trade those depth for a proven SP or that hoping prospect. If fails you can still trade Broxton or Santana 4years from now for darn near the same trade acquisitions we're seeking here now. I mean think. We're in a rebuild. These two/3 with Villar ,4&5 with Bandy/Pina, 6 with Shaw etc., etc., these are Rebuild acquired guys who are producing better than expected. Why trade that away for guys who may turn out to be bums? If these guys had 1 or 2 years remaining team control thoughts of this make sense. 1 you know and they will know what to likely expect. Not an .800ops guy in 2nd year who's numbers can be questioned either way for worse or better. Only to get a bum and trade off a Perrenial All Star?

At this point if Im trading these guys its for another 1st-3rd year proving/improving player that impacts your team the way they do. Julio Urias type skills with control like we're giving up.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#34

Posted: May 12, 2017, 4:29 PM Post
Posts: 6353
Location: Kenosha, WI
A Swing and A Drive said:
I think the idea of trading Broxton, Santana and even Villar in a pursuit of future TOR (Top Of Rotation) starters is one the Brewers brass needs to be open to.

These are players all at positions of depth and strength for the organization and I think it's a great idea to use them to address the organizations areas of weakness. Namely pitching, but also higher ceiling offensive talent than we currently have in the system.

Instead of being part of the next contending Brewers club, I almost consider those 3 to be part of the next "wave" of trading chips that Stearns will have to work with.


I would have to strongly disagree that 2B is a position of strength. We have two guys in the minors that are likely multiple years away and very much unproven. If you are trading Villar in hopes one of those guys replace him successfully in 2+ years is a bit optimistic.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#35

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:20 AM Post
Posts: 167
Santana heating up nicely. Now sporting a .280/.372/.466/.838 line. 18th highest OPS for an OF getting starters PA's. To put into prospective. 5 teams have 2 OF with better OPS's than Santana. 7 Teams have 1 OF with a better OPS. That means 17 teams do not have an OF getting starters PA's with that high of an OPS.

If he could add a couple dingers (its been a while since he has hit one) and get the OPS in the .850-.870 range he can bring back a good prospect or two while opening a spot for a more well rounded player (Brinson/Phillips/Cordell).


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#36

Posted: May 16, 2017, 12:56 PM Post
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If Santana and Broxton are able to consistently hit at this level (say until mid-August), I think there is the real possibility that any of the following could be packaged and dealt to address the TOR pitchers we are discussing:
1. Corey Ray
2. Brett Phillips
3. Ryan Cordell
SHOCKER:
4. Lewis Brinson

While I don't typically advocate dealing prospects such as Brinson and Ryan Braun will eventually need to be replaced, if Santana and Broxton are at .850-.900 OPS while hitting Major League pitching AND will have done so for a year (end of 2016 through most of 2017), I will be hard pressed to trade them.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#37

Posted: May 16, 2017, 1:03 PM Post
Posts: 5790
Warning Track Power said:
If Santana and Broxton are able to consistently hit at this level (say until mid-August), I think there is the real possibility that any of the following could be packaged and dealt to address the TOR pitchers we are discussing:
1. Corey Ray
2. Brett Phillips
3. Ryan Cordell
SHOCKER:
4. Lewis Brinson

While I don't typically advocate dealing prospects such as Brinson and Ryan Braun will eventually need to be replaced, if Santana and Broxton are at .850-.900 OPS while hitting Major League pitching AND will have done so for a year (end of 2016 through most of 2017), I will be hard pressed to trade them.


Or, alternatively, it is the perfect time to trade them. If TOR pitching is what you want, do you think a GM for another team would give that up for a Phillips or Cordell? No. Would they give it up for Santana hitting .850? Maybe. Broxton at .850? Yes.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#38

Posted: May 16, 2017, 1:35 PM Post
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Posts: 2386
Location: California
FVBrewerFan said:
Warning Track Power said:
If Santana and Broxton are able to consistently hit at this level (say until mid-August), I think there is the real possibility that any of the following could be packaged and dealt to address the TOR pitchers we are discussing:
1. Corey Ray
2. Brett Phillips
3. Ryan Cordell
SHOCKER:
4. Lewis Brinson

While I don't typically advocate dealing prospects such as Brinson and Ryan Braun will eventually need to be replaced, if Santana and Broxton are at .850-.900 OPS while hitting Major League pitching AND will have done so for a year (end of 2016 through most of 2017), I will be hard pressed to trade them.


Or, alternatively, it is the perfect time to trade them. If TOR pitching is what you want, do you think a GM for another team would give that up for a Phillips or Cordell? No. Would they give it up for Santana hitting .850? Maybe. Broxton at .850? Yes.

Very fair questions to ask...

I just don't want us to fall in love with our prospects at the expense of current players on the roster that are young-ish, under team control and producing .850-.900 OPS.


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Online  Re: Outfield
#39

Posted: May 16, 2017, 1:53 PM Post
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I know people get sick of hearing "small sample," but we shouldn't make decisions based on a bad few weeks. Even with the slow starts Broxton is now hitting .261/.325/.470/.795, and Santana is at .280/.372/.466/.838.

This is exactly why the Brewers need to give some leeway to young guys with talent. Giving up on them too early could be a big mistake. Even though I'm happy that the Brewers are exceeding expectations in the W/L column, we still need to keep the long-term best interest of the club in mind. We have multiple guys on the team that are in "sink or swim" mode (especially in the pitching ranks), but they need time before getting shown the door. The prospects will be here soon, we just need to be patient for a while longer.


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Offline  Re: Outfield
#40

Posted: May 17, 2017, 11:53 AM Post
Posts: 1214
MrTPlush said:
A Swing and A Drive said:
I think the idea of trading Broxton, Santana and even Villar in a pursuit of future TOR (Top Of Rotation) starters is one the Brewers brass needs to be open to.

These are players all at positions of depth and strength for the organization and I think it's a great idea to use them to address the organizations areas of weakness. Namely pitching, but also higher ceiling offensive talent than we currently have in the system.

Instead of being part of the next contending Brewers club, I almost consider those 3 to be part of the next "wave" of trading chips that Stearns will have to work with.


I would have to strongly disagree that 2B is a position of strength. We have two guys in the minors that are likely multiple years away and very much unproven. If you are trading Villar in hopes one of those guys replace him successfully in 2+ years is a bit optimistic.


I'm not saying to trade Villar, as I don't think we would get value. But for some reason if someone loved him as the lead of a package, and the Brewers could get a decent starter, why not?

Basically you would be giving Perez an everyday home. Even if we needed him elsewhere, you have Franklin/Sogard/DeJesus/Rivera in the mean time. We wouldn't be solely relying only on Dubon/Diaz for the future, but I could see one ready in 2019. Until then there are plenty of Gennetts around for basically free or trade from our surplus of AAA OFs for an about ready to come up to the majors AAA 2B.


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