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Trade a Catcher

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Offline  Trade a Catcher
#1

Posted: May 12, 2017, 10:03 AM Post
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Posts: 430
What are the chances we trade Manny Pina or Jett Bandy at the trade deadline?

I know they're both controllable for many years and having them both is good protection in case one of them starts to regress, but would it be worth trying to cash in on their hot start and get something for one of these catchers? Pina seems to be the better all around player so far, could we flip Bandy at the deadline for something much better than what we gave up for him?

The Diamondbacks have been off to a good start but need help at catcher, they could be a good match.

DBacks catchers:
Chris Iannetta .214/.279/.339 in 61 PA (16/4 K/BB)
Jeff Mathis .131/.145/.262 in 62 PA (20/1 K/BB)

Brewers catchers:
Manny Pina .313/.352/.448 in 72 PA (8/4 K/BB)
Jett Bandy .281/.333/.531 in 69 PA (15/4 K/BB)

We have 3 catchers at AAA that could all probably do a serviceable job as a backup (I know Susac is doing pretty bad since coming back, but between Heineman/Garcia/Susac there should be an ok backup for the rest of the year somewhere in there).

I know catchers don't often get traded at the deadline (Lucroy was a notable exception) and you don't want to mess with a good thing, trade away the wrong one of the two, have the other regress and be stuck back where we were with no good catchers, but this is a position of relative depth for us right now and it seems like it could be a place where we could get a really good return potentially.

What do you guys think?


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#2

Posted: May 12, 2017, 10:34 AM Post
Posts: 6267
Location: Kenosha, WI
Zero because it would be foolish to think either is even nearly as good as their stats show. Both are maybe MAYBE average.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#3

Posted: May 13, 2017, 8:57 PM Post
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I think people need to stop looking at 1 months worth of stats to make decisions. GMs don't.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#4

Posted: May 13, 2017, 9:15 PM Post
Posts: 930
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#5

Posted: May 13, 2017, 9:21 PM Post
Posts: 10647
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#6

Posted: May 13, 2017, 9:39 PM Post
Posts: 930
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#7

Posted: May 14, 2017, 6:25 AM Post
Posts: 78
Brewcrewin07 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.


If you don't think they are as good as their stats say that is when you would trade them.. ever heard of sell high? .. That's what you do before the league gets a book on them.. I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball.. but to say you don't trade good players is not correct. It is all situational.. you are not going to get alot for either guy so hold on to them and see what we got


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#8

Posted: May 14, 2017, 6:51 AM Post
Posts: 9986
I agree that it's all situational. The franchise needs to be open to all different avenues of putting this club in the best possible situation in both the short and long term, and I think Stearns is.

So yeah, always consider the situation. It's silly IMO to say you're always going to hold onto good players. Sometimes, for various reasons the best course of action will be to trade them. Teams generally aren't interested in garbage players in trade, they do prefer good ones. It was only 10 months ago that we traded Lucroy, and now he's 2/3rds of a really good up and coming outfield in Colorado Springs plus a top 100 pitcher in Biloxi. How much of a mistake would it have been to hold onto him, and how far back would we have set the rebuild by not doing so?

That said, I don't see either of Bandy and Pina getting traded. Both are highly controlled and we have a pretty good situation going on with them splitting reps at catcher. Pair that with the fact that I don't think either have enough established success yet to bring in any offers that make it worthwhile.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#9

Posted: May 14, 2017, 7:26 AM Post
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leitermab07 said:
I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball..

Except for Susac in AAA. Thus the impetus for trying to sell high on Pina or Bandy.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#10

Posted: May 14, 2017, 7:53 AM Post
Posts: 3529
I wouldnt be surprised if its Susac that gets traded and Pina/Bandy stick around. Seen somewhere someone exclaim the amount of thrown out at 2nd picking off a too far off the base runner, being than ever seen for a season. I agree both arent just doing it at the plate, but with their arms. If Feliciano is in A ball. 3years of this I certainly can stomach.

I said at beginning of season Susac could be the winner out of the three catching Hader and Woodruff. If either of those two command Susac be their personal catcher he may wind up sticking with Milw longer than Pina or Bandy. If that's not happening, I'd look for a team to take Susac with Stearns being stearn on not trading Pina/Bandy.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#11

Posted: May 14, 2017, 7:59 AM Post
Posts: 9986
LouisEly said:
leitermab07 said:
I agree they shouldn't trade either because there is no catcher in the weeds other than an 18 yr old Feliciano in A ball..

Except for Susac in AAA. Thus the impetus for trying to sell high on Pina or Bandy.


Selling high like what? I can't imagine that a guy who was worth Martin Maldonado and a throw-in before the season is suddenly worth a lot more after a month. You're obviously not getting a Lucroy return like last year. Unless someone is offering up a very high ceiling pitching prospect I don't get the motivation to move either, especially with Susac not exactly lighting it up for the Sky Sox.


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Online  Re: Trade a Catcher
#12

Posted: May 15, 2017, 2:24 PM Post
Posts: 2839
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently. I love how Sterns has traded good players to open spots for better players.

That said, I think I would wait to deal a catcher. While I believe both are actually good, I think they're still both building their league wide reputations. Waiting allows Susac, Heineman, and Houle time to develop.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..


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Online  Re: Trade a Catcher
#13

Posted: May 15, 2017, 2:37 PM Post
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Posts: 5660
Never Outhustled said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently.


Doug Melvin took his chances with the windows he had to compete. If he sells off all of our stars (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, etc...) Maybe we never even make it back to .500 or to the NLCS or the playoffs twice. Maybe they sell off and they get better players but there's always the possibility that you miss your window and never do anything either. The Brewers will be having their window come open (and maybe sooner than people thought) and eventually will have to make their decisions again. Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#14

Posted: May 15, 2017, 2:59 PM Post
Posts: 499
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.


You do realize you are in the Transaction Rumors/Proposals forum right?


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#15

Posted: May 16, 2017, 8:30 AM Post
Posts: 5737
Brewcrewin07 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


Exactly! I mean I don't get why some people here don't understand that a lot of the players the Crew has now are young, and part of the future..You look back on all the trade threads here though, and you can find one for a vast majority of players currently on the roster...a lot of which should be part of the future, not trade bait. It almost makes me wonder if a vast majority here will be literally PO'd if the Brewers are in it at the deadline, and don't trade anyone?? That would really baffle me if that happened, but I can almost guarantee some here will be mad about it.


Yes, I'll be one that will literally be PO'd if they don't trade anyone.

Since Stearns has arrived, the following players have moved on- almost all due to trades. Lucroy, Segura, Gomez, Davis, Gennett, Carter. That's a lot of fire power right? Yet they are putting up more runs than ever. Players that replaced them were had for close to nothing. And in the process, we now have one of the top farm systems instead of one of the worse.

So what are we afraid of? If a couple bats are traded away, they can be replaced- either with our own prospects or Stearns finding another diamond in the rough. He's done it over and over again with Carter, Thames, Aguilar, Villar, Shaw, Broxton, Pina, Bandy...

Doesn't do us any good to score a bunch of runs when the pitching is horrible. And that's not the easy fix a lot of people seem to think it is. That's why it's important to keep acquiring talent. You hope a couple pitchers emerge, and/or you have more and more assets to trade at some point for pitching.

Or, you know, we could keep doing what we did for the past 50 years. Try to be just "good enough" to be interesting. I rather stick to the plan of building this team up to the point where they can be a true contender for more than one flash in the pan year.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#16

Posted: May 16, 2017, 4:09 PM Post
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Posts: 1094
Brew4U said:
Never Outhustled said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently.


Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?



To make massive year-to-year profits, making the books look good to eventually sell the team for a head shaking return?


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Online  Re: Trade a Catcher
#17

Posted: May 16, 2017, 4:38 PM Post
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Oxy said:
Brew4U said:

Have to try to win something at some point though otherwise, what is the point?



To make massive year-to-year profits, making the books look good to eventually sell the team for a head shaking return?


Yeah there is definitely something to that too. Some owners more than others.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#18

Posted: May 16, 2017, 5:40 PM Post
Posts: 6267
Location: Kenosha, WI
Never Outhustled said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.



Hold on to good players and try to win? What a radical idea!


That sounds like what Doug Melvin did, and that failed pretty consistently. I love how Sterns has traded good players to open spots for better players.

That said, I think I would wait to deal a catcher. While I believe both are actually good, I think they're still both building their league wide reputations. Waiting allows Susac, Heineman, and Houle time to develop.


Doug Melvin did what Attanasio told him to. He was driving a car with a gun to his head basically. Stearns has gotten the luxury to do what he wants whenever.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#19

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:16 PM Post
Posts: 944
Let's let the catching spot play itself out-
two young catchers, low salary...
Between the two, one should be avg; who that will be is anyone's guess...
Trading one will not bring much back now. Why would it?

It's been fun watching them play. Their d has been impressive too.


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Offline  Re: Trade a Catcher
#20

Posted: May 21, 2017, 10:49 AM Post
Posts: 50
Brewcrewin07 said:
It amazes me that almost EVERY single player the Brewers have, almost every poster here wants to trade them at some point. Good gosh, you can only acquire so many minor league players..at some point you have to start trying to win. Posters want players to have good halves of the season so they can move them at the deadline..I think that's ridiculous.


Those are the same guys that wanted every bullpen arm traded the last two years, and then start a discussion about how the bullpen sucks.
Some people love the agony of the never ending tank mode


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