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Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?

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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#61

Posted: May 15, 2017, 7:32 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
Brewers Get:
-Jose Quintana
-David Robertson

White Sox Get:
Jorge Lopez
Brett Phillips
Marcos Diplan
Corey Ray
Marcos Dubon

I'm don't really think we'll be in a buying position this summer, but I'll play this for fun, using your proposal as a starting point.

For Quintana and Robertson, I would propose the following: Hader, Santana, Dubon and one of Phillips/Cordell.

Hader offers a potential replacement for Quintana. The White Sox have the 3rd fewest HRs in the league. Santana would be a big bat that could take over for Melky Cabrera.

Diplan is a live arm - helps build depth. Dubon offers a potential starter - probably 2B - in the near future. The Sox have terrible middle infield depth in the minors.

Cordell or Phillips offers a flawed, but interesting bat for the near future.

Plus, remember the Sox unload a lot of salary - which I'm sure would be attractive to them.

The big issues would be the White Sox's view of Hader and Santana. If they view Hader as a reliever and/or Santana as a liability because of his stiff defense - it probably doesn't work.

Brewers simply bring up Brinson to play OF in place of Santana - just the defensive upgrade would be worth it. Dealing Hader is a risk - but hey, you can't get something good by just dealing your spare parts.

Otherwise, the inclusion of Ray would be interesting. He's a Chicago kid and grew up a Sox fan. They might love the idea of getting him.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#62

Posted: May 15, 2017, 7:38 PM Post
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With Hader, I'm not sure what his trade value is. If the Brewers offer him up, they'd be the third team in four years to do so. At some point, other teams are going to wonder why three teams have been so willing to give him up.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#63

Posted: May 15, 2017, 7:43 PM Post
Posts: 1084
There is ZERO chance Hader goes in a deal for Qunitana IMHO, Q has been pretty average this year. WAY PASS


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#64

Posted: May 15, 2017, 7:54 PM Post
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It's 8 starts. He's still striking out almost a batter an inning, but most importantly, it's 8 starts. CC Sabathia had an ERA near 4 when we traded for him.

Quintana has 150+ starts under his belt suggesting he's a frontline starter. The White Sox are not lowering their asking price based on 8 starts.

I'd rather trade Brinson than Hader simply because of the need for pitching in our system vs. our need for outfielders, but one or the other is probably an absolute must in a deal to even start discussions.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#65

Posted: May 15, 2017, 8:53 PM Post
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Taking some risks on pitchers like Gray, with question marks, would be a good strategy in the coming years. Both by trade and free agency. If one or two hit, that can help a ton. If not, we shouldn't be out too much. Ultimately we have to figure out a way to develop some young pitching to be our core.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#66

Posted: May 15, 2017, 8:58 PM Post
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RobDeer 45 said:
Taking some risks on pitchers like Gray, with question marks, would be a good strategy in the coming years. Both by trade and free agency. If one or two hit, that can help a ton. If not, we shouldn't be out too much. Ultimately we have to figure out a way to develop some young pitching to be our core.


True. Unfortunately we have said this for many years.


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Online  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#67

Posted: May 15, 2017, 10:09 PM Post
Posts: 2839
I'd like the Brewers be both buyers and sellers at the deadline. The A's have done that before, why not us?

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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#68

Posted: May 15, 2017, 10:21 PM Post
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Location: Kenosha, WI
I'd trade Hader over Brinson. If Hader looked like a starter it would be a different story, but he looks more like a reliever in my opinion. Of course I can understand why one wouldn't since he is a pitcher and so many fans are in love with pitching prospects. Whether that is justified or not I don't know.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#69

Posted: May 16, 2017, 12:01 AM Post
Posts: 431
MrTPlush said:
I'd trade Hader over Brinson. If Hader looked like a starter it would be a different story, but he looks more like a reliever in my opinion. Of course I can understand why one wouldn't since he is a pitcher and so many fans are in love with pitching prospects. Whether that is justified or not I don't know.


When I watch Hader I see Andrew Miller.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#70

Posted: May 16, 2017, 7:51 AM Post
Posts: 3529
Hader is one of the guys we will have step in to the bullpen. Helping the team will make him a non trade guy. Woodruff in rotation as well. A trade for Q starts at Brinson. Youd probably then give up Ortiz(ouch), 1 of Bickford-Diplan-Freddy Peralta-Lopez, one wild card depending on the previous 1 taken. Supak-Feliciano-Lara-Cordell.

Theres no way we get through a Q deal without parting with 2 pitchers in our minors. If Hader and Woodruff are helping this team Ortiz falls on the grenade as 1st Pitcher to offer which makes a lot of sense because he's looking at posting Q numbers.
After Ortiz pitcher 2 is sorta who do the Sox like? Same with the 4th piece. If theres one. Im not sure Id give a 4th if its Brinson, Ortiz, and Diplan.

About Sonny Gray. He had Ace appeal. Dropped to a #4. Is under-sized proving to that wart on draft day questions. Itd be terrible to offer more than 1 top 100 for him with the depth we could add. Hes such a wildcard currently trending down, he's not a fixer worth wasting for this team in a rebuilding year. Not like Quintana who offers solidity atop the rotation.

With the Sox in a rebuild year. You could probably send off Nelson, Anderson, or Peralta to fill out the loss of Q for innings eating. Peralta #1 on that idea, if hes still on the team at this point.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#71

Posted: May 16, 2017, 7:52 AM Post
Posts: 10647
If the Brewers are close they should go and get Mike Minor from the Royals. Maybe even.take Soria off their hands too if they pick up some salary.


Last edited by JohnBriggs12 on May 16, 2017, 8:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#72

Posted: May 16, 2017, 7:59 AM Post
Posts: 428
Location: Madison, WI
Quintana has a surplus value of right around 100 million IMO.

If I'm the White Sox GM, this are the approximate surplus value I'd put on the Brewer prospects:
-Lewis Brinson = 60 million
-Josh Hader = 28 million
-Corey Ray = 25 million (downgraded because he hasn't hit with the wood bat yet)
-Isan Diaz = 23 million
-Luiz Ortiz = 20 million
-Brandon Woodruff = 20 million
-Brett Phillips = 12 million
-Trent Clark = 10 million
-Lucas Erceg = 10 million
-Mauricio Dubon = 10 million
-Marcos Diplan = 10 million
-Phil Bickford = 10 million
-Jorge Lopez = 10 million
-Ryan Cordell = 10 million
-Corbin Burnes = 10 million
-Jake Gatewood = 10 million
-everybody else (provided I haven't forgotten anybody) = 5 million

Again, putting myself in the White Sox GM chair, I would initially shoot higher than the moon and after bidding down I'd need something like this to motivate me to trade Quintana:

Brewers get:
LHP - Jose Quintana

White Sox get:
OF - Lewis Brinson
RHP - Brandon Woodruff
OF - Brett Phillips
RHP - Corbin Burnes

To move Quintana I'd make Brinson a requirement, one of Hader/Ortiz/Woodruff a requirement and 20-25 million more in surplus value a requirement.

From the Brewer perspective, I'd love to see Quintana in a Brewer uniform but trading for a player like this would just un-do too much of the rebuilding work that Stearns/Melvin have accomplished up to this point.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#73

Posted: May 16, 2017, 8:04 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
If the Brewers are close they should go and get Mike Minor from the Royals. Maybe even.take Soria off their hands too if they pick up some salary.


Interesting "buy low" type target the Brewers should be considering. However, I'm just not convinced that Minor is an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation, let alone adding him to block innings from some of our AAA starters that are ready.

He reminds me of Brandy Beachy and would have made some sense where the Brewers where at rebuilding stage a year ago. I don't expect much of anything out of him anymore and feel he's at the crossroads of his career. I'm not sure I'd even pluck him of the waiver wire to be honest.

In a similar vein, I think the Brewers are a year or even two early on going after a controllable pitcher like Quintana. Just not the right time yet, IMO.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#74

Posted: May 16, 2017, 8:09 AM Post
Posts: 10647
Brewers get:

Quintana

White Sox get :

Hader

Phillips

Ortiz

Diaz


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#75

Posted: May 16, 2017, 8:15 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
If the Brewers are close they should go and get Mike Minor from the Royals. Maybe even.take Soria off their hands too if they pick up some salary.


Interesting "buy low" type target the Brewers should be considering. However, I'm just not convinced that Minor is an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation, let alone adding him to block innings from some of our AAA starters that are ready.

He reminds me of Brandy Beachy and would have made some sense where the Brewers where at rebuilding stage a year ago. I don't expect much of anything out of him anymore and feel he's at the crossroads of his career. I'm not sure I'd even pluck him of the waiver wire to be honest.

In a similar vein, I think the Brewers are a year or even two early on going after a controllable pitcher like Quintana. Just not the right time yet, IMO.



Minor is a bullpen rental. He's a FA after this year. He's been very good out of Royals pen.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#76

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:18 AM Post
Posts: 3529
JohnBriggs12 said:
Brewers get:

Quintana

White Sox get :

Hader

Phillips

Ortiz

Diaz


3 top 100s and one former still near 100? I think thats too much at the top to part with. You'd be hurting a few years on the minors with that 4. I just cant handle Diaz being traded with Hader and Ortiz. You just need to beat another teams offer. I think most cant offer close to that.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#77

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:26 AM Post
Posts: 5737
I wouldn't trade Diaz straight up for Quintana. Having Quintana around the next couple years does nothing. This is the type of deal I would look at down the road, when they have most of the rotation in place.

The type of deals they should be looking at is acquiring younger arms that they will have 6 years of control. Triston McKenzie for example, a guy many wanted back in the Lucroy (almost) deal. You don't need to give up 4 top prospects to get someone like that, they're cheaper, and controlled for a longer period of time.

There is the flame-out risk, but that's why you need a few guys like that to add to Ortiz, Diplan, Bickford, etc. Besides, Quintana comes with risk too. Every player does.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#78

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:34 AM Post
Posts: 9986
FVBrewerFan said:
I wouldn't trade Diaz straight up for Quintana. Having Quintana around the next couple years does nothing. This is the type of deal I would look at down the road, when they have most of the rotation in place.

The type of deals they should be looking at is acquiring younger arms that they will have 6 years of control. Triston McKenzie for example, a guy many wanted back in the Lucroy (almost) deal. You don't need to give up 4 top prospects to get someone like that, they're cheaper, and controlled for a longer period of time.

There is the flame-out risk, but that's why you need a few guys like that to add to Ortiz, Diplan, Bickford, etc. Besides, Quintana comes with risk too. Every player does.


I love Isan Diaz, but if we were offered Quintana straight up for Diaz, I think it would be flat out negligent of Stearns not to take it. If for no other reason that he could be re-traded for a lot more than Diaz.

If not, I don't agree that it does nothing having Quintana around. It obviously helps a lot now, but even if you think we can't compete til 2019, that's still 2019 and 2020 with a frontline starter that we so sorely lack.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#79

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:55 AM Post
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I would be furious if Stearns made some of these suggested trades for Quintana. We're not in the position to be blowing up our farm system on one guy.


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Offline  Re: Is it possible that we could be buyers at the deadline?
#80

Posted: May 16, 2017, 9:57 AM Post
Posts: 5737
Or it's giving up a player with All-Star ceiling for a pitcher that may be done by the time 2019 rolls around. Not saying I'm right or you're wrong, just my take on it. I don't want to give up ANY part of the future for a feel good move. And really, it's irrelevant because it would take more than Diaz, so I REALLY wouldn't want to trade for Quintana.


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