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Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...

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Offline  Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#1

Posted: July 06, 2017, 10:32 AM Post
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Posts: 590
Let's get him!

In all seriousness, I think the A's are going to get a haul for him.

Can/should the Brewers trade what it would take to land him?

Most astute fans say NO. Sonny is a Free Agent after 2019 season and he doesn't fit the Brewers window to contend.

I say YES.

Here's why...

The Brewers could simply "rent" Sonny for exactly one year. And in doing so, swap out OF prospects for SP prospects.

Hear me out...

This month the Brewers trade

OF Corey Ray (our offer might get beat if we don't include Brinson instead, however)
OF Trent Clark
MI Maurcio Dubon
RHP Marcos Diplan (they could demand Woodruff instead)
for
RHP Sonny Gray

We try to contend this season and see if we are still contending next July.

If so, we keep Sonny until 2019 deadline and trade him (though we will get less of a return)
If not, we trade Sonny to a 2018 contender with a high-end SP prospect the headliner in the deal.

So basically Brewers would be trading Clark,Dubon and Diplan for a year of Sonny Gray and flipping OF Corey Ray (or Brinson) for a similar valued SP prospect.

Since we are kinda stuck with Braun, we have to move some of our glut of OF prospects for pitching prospects anyway, IMO.

Since it's nearly impossible and rare for teams to do "prospect for prospect" type deals, this is like a work-around to accomplish it.

And if the Brewers stay contenders this year and the next two years, they would have option to keep Sonny as a Top of the Rotation starter until he's a free agent if they want.

The same can be done for someone like Quintana, but I don't like him as much and think he'll cost more.

Thoughts?


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#2

Posted: July 06, 2017, 10:55 AM Post
Posts: 7243
I'm ok with the concept, but I think given how we're currently built to contend in a playoff series (Nelson, Anderson, Garza/Davies), I'm not in a hurry to make moves


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#3

Posted: July 06, 2017, 11:30 AM Post
Posts: 1359
This is the whole reason internally I kind of hope Brewers have a rough month & drop down from "contender." Gray, no Gray, they are not ready to win a World Series yet.... why give away our system simply to say we made the playoffs? Your trade is dealing 5 guys that are rated in our top 10 by most.

This is not our season, it is a step in right direction towards our future goals. Why are some in such a hurry to completely abandon the plan? Our guys we hope to build around mostly haven't made it to MLB or experienced any success yet. Santana, Braxton, Arica, Villar, Thames are still growing and adjusting.

Give the rebuild some time. No need to rush process. Do it right, keep developing strong system, and the strongest survive, trade the others.... we aren't to that point yet.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#4

Posted: July 06, 2017, 11:42 AM Post
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Posts: 312
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much to give up for Gray. He's a solid MOR pitcher, but not the ace he was pegged to be three years ago.
Holy crap that trade would be a disaster.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#5

Posted: July 06, 2017, 12:31 PM Post
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Posts: 590
I don't agree that it's too much to give up for Gray and will bet anyone that the A's actually get more for him via trade.

Ray and Clark are hitting .241 and .227 respectively at high A level of the minors this season.

Good chance at least one of them doesn't even make the bigs and the other is a replacement level regular.

Hope I'm wrong.

Add to it that they play a position, OF, that the Brewers have a glut of organizational depth.

Dubon is a nice hitter and MI and I think he'll have a fine MLB career but not at an All-Star level.

Diplan likely settles in as a 4-5 type starter in the bigs, which is valuable but nothing to prevent a big trade from happening on a contending team.

If the Brewers turn around and trade Gray in a year or two before he's a free agent, they can recoup much of their prospect asset loses.

If the A's insist on Brewers swapping in Brinson or Woodruff, I'd be fine with Stearns passing.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#6

Posted: July 06, 2017, 12:51 PM Post
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Posts: 6460
That's way too much. I don't think there is any one player in baseball I would be comfortable giving up that much for.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#7

Posted: July 06, 2017, 1:00 PM Post
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Posts: 590
jerichoholicninja said:
That's way too much. I don't think there is any one player in baseball I would be comfortable giving up that much for.


ANY PLAYER IN BASEBALL????

Stearns almost got that much for Tyler friggin Thornburg. lol

Thorburg actual vs Gray proposal

Travis Shaw = Corey Ray

Mauricio Dubon = Maurico Dubon

Josh Pennington = Marcos Diplan


So basically OF Trent Clark's inclusion in my Gray proposal would be the difference between 2 1/2 years of Sonny Gray vs 3 years of Thornburg.

I think it's a fair offer and like I said predict the A's actually get more.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#8

Posted: July 06, 2017, 1:15 PM Post
Posts: 1359
A Swing and A Drive said:
jerichoholicninja said:
That's way too much. I don't think there is any one player in baseball I would be comfortable giving up that much for.


ANY PLAYER IN BASEBALL????

Stearns almost got that much for Tyler friggin Thornburg. lol

Thorburg actual vs Gray proposal

Travis Shaw = Corey Ray

Mauricio Dubon = Maurico Dubon

Josh Pennington = Marcos Diplan


So basically OF Trent Clark's inclusion in my Gray proposal would be the difference between 2 1/2 years of Sonny Gray vs 3 years of Thornburg.

I think it's a fair offer and like I said predict the A's actually get more.


So because one GM overpaid a ton.... that is the blueprint for Stearns to follow? Good call....

Gray & a possible playoff appearance is in no way worth our future...Hard pass. Stick to the plan... clearing house now would be awful move


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#9

Posted: July 06, 2017, 1:54 PM Post
Posts: 6387
Location: Kenosha, WI
Why do we need a top of the rotation pitcher? Nelson and Anderson are pitching like aces. Stick to that and at the end of July get a back of the rotation arm if you think you need it. I would mostly look for cheaper bullpen options. If we really look good this month splurge on a controllableone if need be.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#10

Posted: July 06, 2017, 2:05 PM Post
Posts: 1100
That trade isn't even remotely in the ballpark and its so far out of this world I have almost no words and absolutely positively HELL no are we trading those guys unless we're getting Kershaw or Trout, much less Sonny Gray.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#11

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:00 PM Post
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Posts: 590
If Sonny Gray is moved this month, the A's will get a similar return to my Brewers proposal.

Which is basically one Top 100 prospect (Ray) and 2-3 in the 100-200 MLB prospect range.

I'll even add that the ones they will get will be at or close to the MLB level as well, as 3 of the players in my proposal are currently below AA.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#12

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:07 PM Post
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Posts: 4699
Location: Phoenix, AZ
No Gray is not worth it and I would rather see some other team trade for Gray and absolutely regret trading for him as he falls apart at the end of the year.

If the Brewers are going to give up these prospects Gerrit Cole would be a better target.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#13

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:13 PM Post
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Posts: 590
nate82 said:
No Gray is not worth it and I would rather see some other team trade for Gray and absolutely regret trading for him as he falls apart at the end of the year.

If the Brewers are going to give up these prospects Gerrit Cole would be a better target.


I agree that Cole has more value than Gray currently, but it's unlikely the Pirates would be willing to trade him within the same division unless they had no better options.

I think the Yankees may make a play for Cole.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#14

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:40 PM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
If Sonny Gray is moved this month, the A's will get a similar return to my Brewers proposal.

That's fine - they might. I actually think it is at least in the neighborhood of a reasonable offer. Depends on how you view Clark and Dubon, I guess.

But I do agree with the sentiment that this is not something the Brewers should be doing, at least not right now. I don't know that Gray moves the needle high enough for the cost. That's a lot to pay if it brings the Brewers from 82 wins to 84 wins (which might be generous).


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#15

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:42 PM Post
Posts: 503
This is a pretty bad trade proposal for a pitcher that isn't having a great season in a pitcher's ballpark.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#16

Posted: July 06, 2017, 3:58 PM Post
Posts: 236
Location: Milwaukee
Why does every trade proposal include us getting a rotation arm in return? I don't see the immediately need to upgrade from Nelson, Chase, Guerra, Garza, Davies. Especially when we have Woodruff waiting in the wings this year. People were DYING for Woodruff to be up earlier now it's crickets because this team is clicking hard and looking really good so now all of a sudden people are turning to giving up several top prospects for one rotation arm.

A solid pen arm is what they need most.

All last year it was people whining about Phillips and Nottingham and now it's turned to the Mudcats team. Zero patience here. Zero big picture thinking


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#17

Posted: July 06, 2017, 4:29 PM Post
Posts: 3856
I doubt that would be enough to get Gray. I don't see Clark having much trade value and honestly I don't think Ray would even be a top 100 prospect if he wasn't the #5 overall pick. Diplan has a lot of upside but surely Oakland will demand Woodruff, Hader or both.

I also don't see the need for Gray right now. I'd much rather add bullpen help because that's our glaring hole right now.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#18

Posted: July 06, 2017, 5:28 PM Post
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Posts: 899
I think that it's probably a fair proposal. I'm also not sure Gray is enough of a difference maker to risk those assets. If you knew you were going to make the playoffs and you knew Anderson would come back strong then maybe. I get the intrigue of a healthy Nelson, Gray, Anderson front three. I think there are other guys who would be as much of an upgrade for cheaper this season. I'm kind of ok with them just continuing to plug from internal sources for now and see what some more of our younger guys have. Really looking forward to seeing Woodruff sometime this season. Maybe it's time for me to raise my expectations but the Brewers still don't have the same talent as the Cubs and the Dodgers and Nationals are just flat out better. They are having a great season so far and have really narrowed the gap to true contention but if I'm giving up a legit part of the farm system, I would like my response to be: you know what the Brewers might be the best team in the NL. They're just not there yet.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#19

Posted: July 06, 2017, 5:56 PM Post
Posts: 1359
NievesNoNO said:
I think that it's probably a fair proposal. I'm also not sure Gray is enough of a difference maker to risk those assets. If you knew you were going to make the playoffs and you knew Anderson would come back strong then maybe. I get the intrigue of a healthy Nelson, Gray, Anderson front three. I think there are other guys who would be as much of an upgrade for cheaper this season. I'm kind of ok with them just continuing to plug from internal sources for now and see what some more of our younger guys have. Really looking forward to seeing Woodruff sometime this season. Maybe it's time for me to raise my expectations but the Brewers still don't have the same talent as the Cubs and the Dodgers and Nationals are just flat out better. They are having a great season so far and have really narrowed the gap to true contention but if I'm giving up a legit part of the farm system, I would like my response to be: you know what the Brewers might be the best team in the NL. They're just not there yet.


Exactly! We may make a run to playoffs but we are not on the level of some of those other teams. This trade will not get us there either. When we got CC & Greinke, we were on that level with star power. People just get over excited over a little success. Throw away future to chase a mere playoff bid. In March we didn't think this team would win more than 75 games but halfway through season we want to abandon the plan?


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray- Let's GO FOR IT! Here's a plan...
#20

Posted: July 06, 2017, 6:23 PM Post
Posts: 470
Location: Madison, WI
My top offer for Gray:
Oakland pick between Trent Clark or Lucas Erceg
Ryan Cordell
Cody Ponce

And I wouldn't anticipate getting very far with that.

Absolutely hate the concept of trading a big package for him and then trading him for a lesser package later on. Gray had a 5.69 ERA and 1.50 WHIP last year. I don't think the consistency is there with him where I'd be willing to take that gamble. If I trade for him it's with the strict intention that he's a Brewer for at least the next 2.5 seasons.


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