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Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana

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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:07 AM Post
Posts: 6238
Location: Kenosha, WI
PlayerHader said:
You just listed a bunch of close games that Hader came in and delivered a scoreless performance...and that is your evidence that he isn't very valuable?


When I look at Hader I don't think he has played all that well or been that valuable. However I really believe down the stretch he will be a big part which is important when you flirt with the idea of trading him. I also take into account his value in future seasons. I think he will be a major bullpen arm. Knebel and Hader could be a pretty good 1-2 punch at the back end. Maybe he is only a bullpen arm, but when you can be elite at it that is a pretty valuable player. I don't want to trade him or Brinson. We could make a competitive offer(possibly win) using players farther away from the MLB level.


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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:10 AM Post
Posts: 1346
I'm starting to come around on Gray a bit. DJ can get most out of him and has really turned it on now after slow start. He will cost us Broxton, Brinson, or Phillips for sure. A's are in desperate need of young athletic OFs. With the chemistry right now of this club, if don't see them trading Broxton. I love Phillips but think he'd be the odd man out in the equation.

You'd also have to give up Woodruff, Burns, Ortiz, or Peralta as well.

After that you may be able offer like Coulter, Ponce, Tyrone Taylor. Finish with a throw in.

Think a Phillips, Ortiz, Coulter would get it done. Thin out OF log jam a bit. Coulter is the typical As OF plus can DH. Phillips gives them a 12 year younger CF who shouldn't struggle much worse than R. Davis right now. Ortiz gives them a high upside arm.


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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:54 AM Post
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Posts: 4512
I don't know that you'd need to give up one of the big five pitching prospects (Hader, Woodruff, Burnes, Ortiz, Peralta) because the A's really need OF at all levels of the org. They only have two OFs in their top 20 prospects and one of them started the year in the DSL. The A's also need a middle infielder for 2018.

People forget that Cordell is a CF - he's played CF more than any other position in the minors, but doesn't play there now because of Brinson. He's very athletic.

I would much rather give up Ray than any of the big five pitching prospects. Ray + Dubon + Cordell + a fourth piece (Coulter? Supak? Zack Brown? Kirby?) is a lot to give up, but it means they keep their top pitching prospects.

I'd like to keep Phillips with the plan being to trade Broxton in the offseason, and then platoon Brinson/Phillips next year to help them make the adjustment to the majors.


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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 6:05 PM Post
Posts: 259
trwi7 said:
OnaBadger58 said:
trwi7 said:
But he's not now, which isn't going to damage the bullpen that much, which is why you said you wouldn't trade him.

Sure right now there wouldn't be a big dent in the bullpen if he was traded, but again he has performed when his number is called. Please don't tell me you believe Lopez can be as effective as Hader is right now. And no that is not why I said I wouldn't trade him. I said he would be (is) a key piece meaning I wouldn't trade him because of where he is now and what his ceiling is.


He has performed when his number is called, despite the ridiculous number of walks but again, let's look at when he's been called upon.

Game 1: Brewers are losing 3-2 to the Diamondbacks. To his credit, he didn't allow a run in his inning keeping the Brewers well within striking distance.

Game 2: Came in with runners on 1st and 3rd with 2 outs and the Brewers leading 5-4. Threw two pitches and got out of the inning when Pina threw out Fowler trying to steal 2nd. He literally had to do nothing in this appearance despite pitching.

Game 3: Pitched a scoreless 6th and 7th inning a tie game. The Brewers would end up scoring two in the 9th to secure a win. Maybe Blazek or Lopez give up a run or more if they were asked to pitch two innings in this situation. Maybe they pitch two scoreless innings.

Game 4: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 7-2 and pitches two solid innings. Brewers end up losing 7-3.

Game 5: Pitches a scoreless 7th with the Brewers trailing 3-1. Brewers end up losing 3-1.

Game 6: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 3-2 and pitches two scoreless innings. Brewers end up tying the game at 3 but Knebel blows the game in the 8th and the Brewers end up losing 4-3.

Game 7: Pitches a scoreless inning with the Brewers leading 7-4. Brewers end up winning 8-4.

Game 8: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 3-2 after a rain delay. Gives up a homer to make it 4-2 but the Brewers come back and that's the only blemish in his three innings. This appearance might be difficult to replace but with Blazek starting in the minors, it's possible that he would be able to give us 3 innings if need be.

Game 9: Comes in with the Brewers leading 9-6 with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. Strikes out the two batters he faces in the 7th to keep the run off the board. Walks the leadoff hitter in the 8th and gets taken out. It's nice that he didn't allow the runner on 3rd to score with 1 out but even if he (or any other pitcher) did, it's still a two run lead.

Sorry, you're just going to have a really hard time convincing me that Hader isn't replaceable with the way he's being used now. That's not Hader's fault but he's also not an irreplaceable piece of the bullpen right now.




I'm not seeing how this is proving the poster you quoted wrong. His words were
"I said he would be (is) a key piece meaning I wouldn't trade him because of where he is now and what his ceiling is."

So evidence that they brought Hader along slowly in his first couple Major League outings and that he's come in to several close games and almost everytime kept the Brewers in a position to come back doesn't in any way disprove that he has a high ceiling or that he is becoming a key piece of our pen.

Plus....even he hadn't come up and given up 1 run in his first 13 innings...or whatever it's been with a K per IP(and roughly 1 BB as well)...even if he had a ERA of 10 thus far. Doesn't that mean we should trade a guy like him? For years I've read how we can't develop left handed starting pitching or complaining in the draft threads because we're not drafting enough left handers. Well...we've got a left handed power pitcher now who is young, controllable for 6 years and who could be a good starter or high leverage reliever.

By this logic(listing the situations he's come into)...man, Brinson should be all but given away. See if someone will throw us a bone there because he's been awful in the few games he's played in Milwaukee. Arcia was pretty awful for us both the first couple months when he came up last year as well as this year. But Hader's actually been good, he's just been eased in.

Just as much as that though, I don't think Gray is gonna make much difference if the Cubs really get rolling. I think he makes even less if they don't but we run into the Dodgers or even the Nats if we do hand on and get into to the playoffs.


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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 7:17 PM Post
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Posts: 16909
Two of the last three times he's been in a game were when the Brewers had 3 run leads. The other time he came in was after a rain delay. The three times before that he came in when they were trailing and once when they were getting blown out. That doesn't scream high leverage reliever to me.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Brewers prepared to buy, doing background work on Gray and Quintana
Posted: July 16, 2017, 7:41 PM Post
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Posts: 7978
I keep Josh over Lopez any day of the week


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