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Neshek

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Offline  Neshek
#1

Posted: July 16, 2017, 6:56 PM Post
Posts: 196
What would it take? He'd be awesome in the 8th. Bandy or Susac and Cordell?


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#2

Posted: July 16, 2017, 7:06 PM Post
Posts: 197
I'm guessing it would take a lot more to get Neshek. He's not a closer, and isn't on the same level as Aroldis Chapman anyway - but I'm guessing it would take more than one of our AAA catchers and Cordell. My guess is you'd need to throw in a high upside arm like Diplan or Pennington, and then someone like Cordell. Is three months of Neshek worth giving up a package like that? He certainly looked nasty this weekend and has put up fantastic numbers all year. Still, a lot to give up for 3 months of a player.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#3

Posted: July 16, 2017, 8:03 PM Post
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Neshek is 36, making $6.5M, and a free agent after the season. I don't think they would need to send a high upside arm to get him. For reference, Oakland got two A-ball players and a change of scenery reliever for Doolitle and Madsen, and Madsen is under contract for 2018 and Doolittle has team options through 2020. For a 3-month rental, you'd expect less than one of those players the Nats gave up.

I don't think PHI would have any interest in the catchers as they have Knapp and their #3 prospect Alfaro is at AAA (but not doing that well). Their top pitching prospects are in A-ball; I think a ML-ready starter such as Wilkerson, maybe with a low-level lotto ticket (Pierre? Lujano?) would get it done.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#4

Posted: July 16, 2017, 8:10 PM Post
Posts: 197
If it is only going to take Wilkerson and Pierre/Lujano, then why is this deal not already done? I realize that Neshek is 36 and a F/A at the end of the season, but he's also got one of the best ERA's in all of baseball this year. I have a feeling the Phillies are going to ask teams for more than a AAAA pitcher and a teenage lottery ticket. I'd love to be wrong here, but if that's all it is going to take to get a guy like Neshek then I'm not sure what is taking DS this long to go get him?


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#5

Posted: July 16, 2017, 8:24 PM Post
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The Phillies are going to ask for a lot now because the trade deadline is still two weeks away. They don't have to trade him right now. But they haven't because the market wasn't set yet; it is now with what Oakland got.

It's all about supply and demand; every trade reduces demand as well as supply and they don't want to get caught holding him with no demand; as they get closer to the deadline the price goes down. He's also not a closer and never has been; he has 8 career saves. We didn't see a market for 33-year-old Torres last year; Neshek is better but not that much better than Torres was last year.

Over the offseason the Phillies acquired him for a PTBNL or cash; I don't see a PTBNL named so it must have been cash. He wasn't worth much then, he isn't worth a lot more now.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#6

Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:11 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
Over the offseason the Phillies acquired him for a PTBNL or cash; I don't see a PTBNL named so it must have been cash. He wasn't worth much then, he isn't worth a lot more now.


Houston had a bullpen crunch and wanted to ditch some salary, that's why they practically gave him away. Pat's been pretty solid his whole career but has always played second fiddle for the closers role. If some team would have given him the 9th in his past, he's one of if not the top relief arm available.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#7

Posted: July 16, 2017, 9:15 PM Post
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I hear that the O"s have 3 pitchers on the block


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#8

Posted: July 16, 2017, 10:10 PM Post
Posts: 301
jerichoholicninja said:
LouisEly said:
Over the offseason the Phillies acquired him for a PTBNL or cash; I don't see a PTBNL named so it must have been cash. He wasn't worth much then, he isn't worth a lot more now.


Houston had a bullpen crunch and wanted to ditch some salary, that's why they practically gave him away. Pat's been pretty solid his whole career but has always played second fiddle for the closers role. If some team would have given him the 9th in his past, he's one of if not the top relief arm available.


He's probably pretty close to the top arm as it stands. Look at what we got for Thornburg and Smith(hard to saw what we got for Jeffress.) With the demand for relievers, I don't see how we pick up a guy with an ERA of 1.24 and a whip well under 1.00 for our 3rd best AAA OF'er(Phillips is up now, but with him down) and a low level flyer. I'm guessing it'll take a top 100 prospect(like Bickford was).

Philly isn't gonna want fringe prospects for Neshak...IMO. We'll have to see.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#9

Posted: July 17, 2017, 1:20 PM Post
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It makes more sense to target relievers like Neshek with prospects in the 12-25 range than give up multiple top ten guys for a starter. His numbers are great. He looked really impressive yesterday.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#10

Posted: July 17, 2017, 4:02 PM Post
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I'm not necessarily advocating to trade for Neshek, but if it is to occur, I hope that is is prior to the 21st so as not to have to face him anymore this year.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#11

Posted: July 17, 2017, 6:19 PM Post
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OnTheBlack said:
He's probably pretty close to the top arm as it stands. Look at what we got for Thornburg and Smith(hard to saw what we got for Jeffress.) With the demand for relievers, I don't see how we pick up a guy with an ERA of 1.24 and a whip well under 1.00 for our 3rd best AAA OF'er(Phillips is up now, but with him down) and a low level flyer. I'm guessing it'll take a top 100 prospect(like Bickford was).

Philly isn't gonna want fringe prospects for Neshak...IMO. We'll have to see.

Thornburg/Smith are apples to vegetables comparison - Thorny and Smith were both well under 30 and had multiple years of control left. Plus Thorny had closer experience and Smith is left-handed, neither of which Neshek has.

Yea, Philly isn't going to want a fringe prospect... but that's much more like what they are going to get than a top 100 prospect. No way does someone give up a top 100 for 3 months of a 36-year-old making $6.5M.

I still say the best comp is Torres last year. If there was a high upside arm, much less a top 100 prospect, available for Torres the Brewers would have taken it. But Torres didn't get dealt, so I think it's safe to assume there was none.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#12

Posted: July 17, 2017, 8:44 PM Post
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LouisEly said:
OnTheBlack said:
He's probably pretty close to the top arm as it stands. Look at what we got for Thornburg and Smith(hard to saw what we got for Jeffress.) With the demand for relievers, I don't see how we pick up a guy with an ERA of 1.24 and a whip well under 1.00 for our 3rd best AAA OF'er(Phillips is up now, but with him down) and a low level flyer. I'm guessing it'll take a top 100 prospect(like Bickford was).

Philly isn't gonna want fringe prospects for Neshak...IMO. We'll have to see.

Thornburg/Smith are apples to vegetables comparison - Thorny and Smith were both well under 30 and had multiple years of control left. Plus Thorny had closer experience and Smith is left-handed, neither of which Neshek has.

Yea, Philly isn't going to want a fringe prospect... but that's much more like what they are going to get than a top 100 prospect. No way does someone give up a top 100 for 3 months of a 36-year-old making $6.5M.

I still say the best comp is Torres last year. If there was a high upside arm, much less a top 100 prospect, available for Torres the Brewers would have taken it. But Torres didn't get dealt, so I think it's safe to assume there was none.


Torres 2016 First Half
3.07 ERA
1.25 WHIP
9 K/9

Neshek 2017
1.21 ERA
.857 WHIP
9.6 K/9

Torres Career
3.98 ERA (101 ERA+)
1.336 WHIP
8 K/9

Neshek Career
2.78 ERA (145 ERA+)
1.029 WHIP
8.9 K/9

I see no way these two are similar. Neshek is hands down worlds better of a pitcher. Maybe Pat's contract lessens his value a smidge but he's still bringing back a lot more than Torres ever could of.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#13

Posted: July 17, 2017, 9:02 PM Post
Posts: 10184
Torres was nowhere near the best pen arm on the market, Nehek may be. Simple supply and demand dictate he'll command much better than a fringe prospect.

I have no idea if he'll get a name from a subjective top 100 list or not, but the idea that we can just stroll in and offer Medeiros and Monte Harrison and call it a day is a pipe dream. There are plenty of contenders that can and will trump that offer for the top available reliever.

My guess is it takes a Diaz, Erceg, Dubon or Clark type prospect as a headliner. Maybe better.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#14

Posted: July 17, 2017, 9:08 PM Post
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The brewers are better off staying pat that wasting trading prospects


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#15

Posted: July 18, 2017, 10:39 AM Post
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brewmann04 said:
The brewers are better off staying pat that wasting trading prospects

i think thats the point, i don't don't think Neshek would cost a top prospect and would be more of a salary dump for the phils. Maybe something similar to what the brewers got for Aaron Hill last season.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#16

Posted: July 18, 2017, 10:44 AM Post
Posts: 1700
Location: Madison, WI
Seems like Oakland just got less for two solid guys. Heck I'd have just beat that offer and been done with it, roll the dice and hope they hold on.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#17

Posted: July 18, 2017, 12:11 PM Post
Posts: 2324
Phils will have plenty of offers for Neshek if they hold him until the deadline. In fact, his trade value will probably approach a level that is uncomfortable for a team like Milwaukee. Would a mid-tier MIF or OF prospect + Jungmann get it done? I'd think Jungmann still has some value with the years of team control, and frankly he's likely going to be pushed out of Brewer rotation plans by some of their other young arms.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#18

Posted: July 18, 2017, 1:21 PM Post
Posts: 10184
patrickgpe said:
brewmann04 said:
The brewers are better off staying pat that wasting trading prospects

i think thats the point, i don't don't think Neshek would cost a top prospect and would be more of a salary dump for the phils. Maybe something similar to what the brewers got for Aaron Hill last season.



Not even remotely a chance IMO. If we could have Neshek for Wendell Rijo and Aaron Wilkerson, Neshek would be a Brewer by now.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#19

Posted: July 18, 2017, 1:47 PM Post
Posts: 247
Location: Milwaukee
tmwiese55 said:
Seems like Oakland just got less for two solid guys. Heck I'd have just beat that offer and been done with it, roll the dice and hope they hold on.

Oakland got back a solid MLB pen arm with control + 2016 2nd rd pick college bat who's putting together a fine season in A with ability to play middle IF but might stick at 3b + 2016 3rd rd pick who's just getting back from TJ (lefty with #3 upside and 3 average or better offerings including a plus change with really good control - prior to TJ was touching 97 - high ratings for his pitch-ability). They got a good return.


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Offline  Re: Neshek
#20

Posted: July 18, 2017, 3:24 PM Post
Posts: 936
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/statu ... 9724051457


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