LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next  [ 164 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Ian Kinsler

Author Message
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 7:17 AM Post
Posts: 10644
Perez can give them offensively what Kintzler can do these days. Ideally they could find a taker for Villar for anything, bring Phillips up and make Perez the primary 2B. Then let Sogard be the infield utility guy.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 7:18 AM Post
Posts: 251
JohnBriggs12 said:
Perez can give them offensively what Kintzler can do these days. Ideally they could find a taker for Villar for anything, bring Phillips up and make Perez the primary 2B. Then let Sogard be the infield utility guy.


Fine with that too, but Perez isn't looking great either - I especially love his .298 OBP


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 223
Location: Milwaukee
JohnBriggs12 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Boomer5 said:
Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.


Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.


You forget I'm still around? Maybe .900 is impressing even me but I've always thought Gennett was a very solid hitter. Heck he posted an .834 OPS as a 23 year old rookie in 2013 in a not so tiny sample of 230 PA. Compare that with the struggles of their highly rated guys now.

Can we discuss Scooter hitting out of his @ass in 2013 compared to his 2012 AA and 2013 AAA? His 2014-2016 is also evidence he hit out of his @ss in his first MLB stint. Additionally, were the 2013 Brewers winning the division when Scooter came up or did he not have any added pressure (won 74 games that year - 4th in division)?

Why don't you want to compare a 22yr old Arcia to a 23yr old Scooter? Since May 18 Arcia has 254 PA compared to Scooter's 230 and he's slashing 312/354/776 while playing MUCH better defense at THE premium defensive position.

I'm excited to compare Brinson and Phillips at 25-26yrs old to Scooter at 25-26 where he posted 675 and 728 OPS.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:23 AM Post
Posts: 6254
Location: Kenosha, WI
mlloyd10 said:
Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS


Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:39 AM Post
Posts: 223
Location: Milwaukee
MrTPlush said:
mlloyd10 said:
Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS


Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless.

I wouldn't go that far regarding his numbers being meaningless given the vast majority on here were in love with Erceg during his time in Appleton. I was in the camp of having him spend the first 4wks this year in Appleton because outside of his first 4 games or so there his numbers weren't overly impressive. Whereas Keston is destroying the ball. This development team likes challenging these prospects so I can see Hiura flying through the system next year and being ready to compete for a spot in spring of 2019. Realistically, like you, I don't think that happens. I think a more realistic approach is mid-2019 at earliest as that gives him a split of A+/AA next year and starting in AAA in 2019 - more along the lines of Ian Happ. Just depends on his performance - he still needs to get in the field too so that will be a factor. Worst case he's up to start 2020.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 426
Location: Madison, WI
Good chance that Hiura's bat will be ready in the 2019 season. But has he played 1 inning of defense since the Brewers drafted him?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 9:20 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 594
Location: La Crosse
Hiura's elbow injury slowed him down a bit. There is no way that he would have started in the AZL league if he hadn't had it. I would think he'd be in Carolina right now, so if his bat is that advanced and his defense is serviceable, I don't think it's a strecth to think he'll be on the Brewers 2019 team by June.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 9:24 AM Post
User avatar

Resident Hipster
Global Moderator
Posts: 10853
JosephC said:
Good chance that Hiura's bat will be ready in the 2019 season. But has he played 1 inning of defense since the Brewers drafted him?

No - he's on a throwing program and at last report was said to be ready to get in the field by the middle of August. I assume he'll get extensive work in the field in fall instructionals as well, if not the Arizona Fall League.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 8:37 PM Post
Posts: 938
And That said:
JosephC said:
Good chance that Hiura's bat will be ready in the 2019 season. But has he played 1 inning of defense since the Brewers drafted him?

No - he's on a throwing program and at last report was said to be ready to get in the field by the middle of August. I assume he'll get extensive work in the field in fall instructionals as well, if not the Arizona Fall League.


Huh? He is just hitting? DH at A levels?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 04, 2017, 9:00 PM Post
Posts: 6254
Location: Kenosha, WI
rickh150 said:
And That said:
JosephC said:
Good chance that Hiura's bat will be ready in the 2019 season. But has he played 1 inning of defense since the Brewers drafted him?

No - he's on a throwing program and at last report was said to be ready to get in the field by the middle of August. I assume he'll get extensive work in the field in fall instructionals as well, if not the Arizona Fall League.


Huh? He is just hitting? DH at A levels?


Correct, until AA.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 5:25 AM Post
Posts: 10644
JosephC said:
Good chance that Hiura's bat will be ready in the 2019 season. But has he played 1 inning of defense since the Brewers drafted him?


There is a good chance is bat is ready right now. He could be the most ready to hit player drafted by the Brewers since Molitor. To refresh everyone's memory Molitor played all of 64 minor league games, all in the Midwest League the year he was drafted, and hit .346/.457/.504. He was in starting lineup for Brewers on opening day the next season and never looked back. Hiura's hitting .375/.416/.542 in that same league.

Guy's a natural hitter. Much like Molitor was.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 6:42 AM Post
Posts: 164
Yeah if a hall of famer can do it let's figure others can do it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:22 AM Post
Posts: 10644
Devinep said:
Yeah if a hall of famer can do it let's figure others can do it.


Nobody knew Molitor was a future Hall of Famer in 1977. Nobody. The way the Brewers franchise works today, Molitor would have likely not been seen in Milwaukee until 81 or 82.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 7:25 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 66
If Hiura can even play a Rickie Weeks-level 2B, it appears his bat is going to play. I like that pick more and more. A high-OBP table setter in the #2 hole in the line-up is exactly what this line-up needs. If he continues to hit, and gets his defense squared away, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him in Milwaukee sometime in 2018. His early production is what Corey Ray should be doing.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 12:56 PM Post
Posts: 351
Location: New Berlin, WI
JohnBriggs12 said:
Devinep said:
Yeah if a hall of famer can do it let's figure others can do it.


Nobody knew Molitor was a future Hall of Famer in 1977. Nobody. The way the Brewers franchise works today, Molitor would have likely not been seen in Milwaukee until 81 or 82.


I can't remember us drafting a player that was legitimately ready to walk out onto an MLB field day 1. Can you? Braun had defensive issues. Weeks had defensive issues. Fielder made it up in a couple years as a HS pick at age 21. Arcia made it at 21 more recently. The Brewers tend to be fairly aggressive with prospects, this comment makes 0 sense to me.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 1:01 PM Post
Posts: 351
Location: New Berlin, WI
MrTPlush said:
mlloyd10 said:
Hiura will be our starting 2b come 2019 - We need someone for next season - Villar hasn't proven a whole lot.

Next season - Villar cane fill in for Kinsler at 2b and Arcia at SS


Keston Hiura is going to fly through 3 levels next year and be ready for 2019? I love Hiura and think he can move fast, but penciling him in is jumping the gun. He is mashing A ball pitching as a college draftee. His numbers are almost meaningless.


It's far too early to project him to MLB. I think we'll all have a much better feel in May or June next year and have a better shot at accurately projecting MLB arrival. In theory we will have seen a couple months of both his defense and how he handles A+ and or AA pitching by then. You also will have seen a couple months of Villar at MLB and Dubon at AAA.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 1:53 PM Post
Posts: 1740
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Boomer5 said:
Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.


Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.


No one? So our management team is off the hook for begging Villar to take $20M and dumping the better player who was making $2M. How do you reconcile those two decisions?

This wasn't hindsight by Briggs and me. This was a really bad decision and one that has cost the Brewers dearly. The argument was he couldn't be a run producer and could only play 2nd Base. So now to make up for a ridiculous move, the Brewers will have to trade a prospect and pick up a much larger contract for a guy who can only play 2nd base.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 2:09 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 66
Boomer5 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Boomer5 said:
Absurd that we are even thinking of trading for an expensive 35 year old 2B when Stearns wanted to extend Villar in spring and dumped Scooter and his 900 OPS for nothing less than 5 months ago.

Just fast track Hiura and use DeJesus Jr/Dubon to stop gap until he is ready.


Wrong! Scooter's 2016 OPS was .728. No one, and I mean NO ONE could have seen the kind of numbers he's putting up this year. Hindsight is 20/20 though, I guess.


No one? So our management team is off the hook for begging Villar to take $20M and dumping the better player who was making $2M. How do you reconcile those two decisions?

This wasn't hindsight by Briggs and me. This was a really bad decision and one that has cost the Brewers dearly. The argument was he couldn't be a run producer and could only play 2nd Base. So now to make up for a ridiculous move, the Brewers will have to trade a prospect and pick up a much larger contract for a guy who can only play 2nd base.


Villar, for all his bonehead baserunning errors and shoddy fielding at SS, had the look of a future superstar last year. I suppose the argument could be made that the Brewers should have sold Villar high and stuck with Scooter at 2B, but I doubt that you'd find many front office folks that considered Gennett the better of the two players. Now maybe, but in March/April of this year? No way.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 2:09 PM Post
Posts: 223
Location: Milwaukee
JohnBriggs12 said:
Devinep said:
Yeah if a hall of famer can do it let's figure others can do it.


Nobody knew Molitor was a future Hall of Famer in 1977. Nobody. The way the Brewers franchise works today, Molitor would have likely not been seen in Milwaukee until 81 or 82.

So Stearns would have drafted Molitor with the 3rd overall pick in 77 then had him spend full seasons in A, A+, AA, AAA from 78-81 then had him up in Milwaukee in 81 or 82?

Please provide one factual example of Stearns acting in this manner.

On the other hand I'll provide factual examples of how he's between aggressive and super aggressive with moving prospects.
5yrs+ young for level - Arcia, Hader
4yrs+ young for level - Woodruff (MLB otherwise 2yrs+), Dubon (Santana and Davies both land here too)
3yrs+ young for level - Brinson, Ortiz, Phillips, Peralta, Feliciano, Derby
2yrs+ young for level - Burnes, Lutz, Clark, Diplan, Nottingham, Monte, Herrera, Bickford (next year in AA)
1.5yr+ young for level - Diaz, Kodi, Gatewood, Supak, Yamamoto (Hiura is 1.2)

I'm sure there are others but those are just the Top 30 and I didn't even include the bottom few players


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Ian Kinsler
Posted: August 07, 2017, 2:12 PM Post
Posts: 431
Stearns worships versatility.

Scooter had no versatility.

Stearns was going to jettison Scooter one way or the other. Scooter was not a "Stearns guy."

My problem with the Scooter transaction is that Stearns just gave him away. I never thought Scooter had huge value, but I do think he was worth one or two lower level lottery tickets (think the Lind trade). With the Brewers not planning to compete there was no reason just to DFA Scooter.

To this point the Scooter transaction and Corey Ray pick look like Stearns sole black marks.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next  [ 164 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test