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Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat

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Online  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#21

Posted: July 30, 2017, 9:33 PM Post
Posts: 6271
Location: Kenosha, WI
FVBrewerFan said:
They need a bat, maybe two. They need another arm in the pen. They really probably need another SP. Which is why they shouldn't get any of them.


I think the real problem is we don't have any idea what we need. Outside of bullpen help it is hard to know with so many career years going on. Which ones are legit and which are due for big regression? I don't know if we can come to the conclusion we need any bats due to a 2 week period where they have slumped.

I have no problem acquiring controllable pitching if the deal makes sense. Regarding the offense I'd just go with what we have now. Unfortunately it is hard to make trades with a team like this. We can make better decision this winter or next summer.


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#22

Posted: July 31, 2017, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 1640
Location: Madison, WI
Yes it's been reaelly surpsising that it's the offense that has actually led to the downfall. I suppose it is the expected regression when you think about it. Thams back to reality, Sogard couldn't keep that going forever(Villar still not good), Broxton hit the massive cold spell and now rookie replacement. That's really it right there that is making them score one or two less runs than they need each game. Braun has been fine but hasn't hit one of those hot streaks we've seen so many times that could make up for this.

Still, I don't think there's much that can be done about it at this point. The upgrade spots are CF and 2B. But CF has our two best prospects coming so you're not going to do much there. 2B I suppose is an option to upgrade but at this point is it really worth using significant prospects? Sogard is still putting the ball in play, I'd just go with him and hope you get lucky that they start falling again. Hope for a rebound by Villar next year and if not you have several IF prospects in the works including your #1 pick this year who might be a fast riser out of the minor due to his bat.


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#23

Posted: July 31, 2017, 8:53 AM Post
Posts: 5741
Yea, that's why you stay the course. Brinson/Phillips should be playing a lot the rest of this season and next year. Next season, start off with Dubon at 2B. Add Woodruff to the rotation to start the year. Maybe Burnes or Ortiz later in the year.

Then it's just sit back and see which guys show they're part of the future, which are not, and who is still a question mark. They will definitely pony up some money and/or prospects for some help at some point, but hard to do that until you know what is really needed.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#24

Posted: August 06, 2017, 9:26 AM Post
Posts: 10647
While sticking with Brinson has some merit, I still think adding a veteran OF bat that can play CF makes sense. Even if Brinson gets going ( and some recent signs are good) they still need protection in the corner spots. Granderson has reportedly cleared waivers. His presence as a late inning bench option is a huge upgrade over Villar and the version of Sogard we've seen the last month.


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#25

Posted: August 06, 2017, 2:36 PM Post
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Go get Granderson and Phillips and see what happens the rest of the way.

(OBP/OPS)
L- Granderson- CF (.334/.790)
R- Santana- RF (.369/.848)
R- Braun- LF (.341/.850)
L- Shaw- 3B (.363/.919)
R- Phillips- 2B (.330/.756)
L- Thames-1B (.364/.889)
R- Pína- C (.338/.784)
R- Arcía- SS (.327/.744)

Bench: Bandy/Vogt, Villar(if not traded or Sogard), Broxton, Aguilar, Perez

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#26

Posted: August 09, 2017, 10:45 PM Post
Posts: 2339
I'm emotionally exhausted watching the Brewers the past 3+ weeks, and it's mainly because the hitting has been so poor. I hate stretches like this where a lone run is a major accomplishment, a walk or a single is the best rally we can put together (outside of the first inning), and anytime we give up a lead -- no matter at what point in the game but esp. from the 4th inning onward -- it feels like I'd have better odds of winning the Powerball than the Brewers have of coming back to tie or take the lead. Most of our recent wins feel like they've been scratched-and-clawed for, hanging onto a 1- or (rarely, it seems) 2-run lead for dear life and praying the bullpen doesn't collapse.

Lately it seems the more we need runs, the less likely we are to get them across -- and often the more likely our hitters are to punch a little dribbler straight at an IF or OF . . . or just strike out, which they seem to being doing worse and worse at these days (esp. Villar, Broxton, Thames, etc.).

When Braun and Arcia are hitting pretty well and no one else in the lineup can consistently make contact (it was Shaw & Santana & Pina in some combination before them) -- much as I wish the bullpen were better and especially that they'd finally send Jacob Barnes to the minors to get his act together (sheesh, he's been terrible!) -- it just feels hopeless even when it's (hopefully) likely just a phase.

I get it, we're not this bad of a team overall. The 59 wins to date are no fluke, but . . . . What I'm getting at mainly is that while the moves to augment the talent level in the bullpen have been nice to see, my greater preference would be to see an August move -- preferably two -- for a bat. Rentals are fine. Granderson's no savior and Kinsler's (and Phillips') best days are well behind him, but some of the struggling young guys could stand to be challenged and a little change to the team's makeup at the plate might help -- granted, most likely would be short-term, but that's fine by me if it doesn't interfere with the big-picture path the team's on.

On the flip side of all this, it's hard not to figure they're just going to have to play themselves out of it. We're still rebuilding and that "grow through it" approach is part of the deal. But until progress happens and they start playing a little more like before, it's just plain painful.


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#27

Posted: August 10, 2017, 6:29 AM Post
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I just don't understand why a move at second wasn't made. If you weren't going to stick with Villar and let him figure it out over the next 50 games, than why not a Kinsler/Phillips? Sogard is not a good MLB player and if Stearns/CC didn't have that foresight than boy are we in trouble. Those couple of guys I mentioned wouldn't cost us the farm and they'd give us a professional player.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#28

Posted: August 10, 2017, 7:18 AM Post
Posts: 428
Location: Madison, WI
The more I watch this team, the more it appears that Stearns just didn't believe this team would have what it takes to make the playoffs even after a couple additions. Considering the 9-16 record since the All-Star break, it looks like he was probably right. Or maybe he thought they might just have enough to make the playoffs, but one injury could completely derail that. That lineup last night was flat out ugly after subtracting Shaw (best wishes to him and his family). They don't have a leadoff hitter so Santana is moved to the top. His OBP plays well there but his SLG is basically wasted since the two spots ahead of him are a terrible OBP Broxton and the pitcher's spot. Pina has done a great job for the Brewers this year but a cleanup hitter? Perez and his .263/.292/.436/.728 as a 5 hitter? Maybe the team gets lucky and hits a pitcher on his off-night, but I don't see a lineup like that hitting MLB pitching on a consistent basis. Sure it's only one game but that's a real ugly lineup for a team that is 1.5 game behind in the division.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#29

Posted: August 10, 2017, 9:36 AM Post
Posts: 5741
JosephC said:
The more I watch this team, the more it appears that Stearns just didn't believe this team would have what it takes to make the playoffs even after a couple additions.


Well, yea. Let's remember this team wasn't built to make a run for the WS this year. But he added pieces like Thames and Shaw to at least put a competitive team on the filed, and see what happens. And I don't think that has changed. As bleek as it looks today they're still 1 1/2 games out.

Maybe the bats come around, maybe they don't. But these threads had dozens of pages about acquiring a SP. Now it has turned to a bat, as though nobody ever wanted a pitcher. Truth is, would adding a Kinsler change anything? Really? Anything is possible I guess, but I don't think so.

I get there's emotions involved. I turned off the game a couple times during these Twins games myself. Easy to have cries of "Do something! Anything!" But when that something doesn't make sense, never a good idea to make a move just for the sake of making a move.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#30

Posted: August 10, 2017, 1:53 PM Post
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With Contreras going on DL and likely out until end of September, I wonder if Sterns takes a more aggressive approach to obtaining a 2b replacement. The division is wide open now.


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#31

Posted: August 10, 2017, 1:57 PM Post
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benji said:
With Contreras going on DL and likely out until end of September, I wonder if Sterns takes a more aggressive approach to obtaining a 2b replacement. The division is wide open now.


Has been for the entire season. Hasn't made him do a dang thing other than find a couple secondary bullpen arms that are eh, other than Swazak so far. Don't expect a thing to be done other than MA to count the money rolling in from the attendance this season.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#32

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:10 PM Post
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Well advance metrics like 3rd order wins etc had the Cubs still with great odds of winning the division. Not sure how much Contreras's loss changes the math, but it is a huge hit for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#33

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:22 PM Post
Posts: 5741
Brew4U said:
benji said:
With Contreras going on DL and likely out until end of September, I wonder if Sterns takes a more aggressive approach to obtaining a 2b replacement. The division is wide open now.


Has been for the entire season. Hasn't made him do a dang thing other than find a couple secondary bullpen arms that are eh, other than Swazak so far. Don't expect a thing to be done other than MA to count the money rolling in from the attendance this season.


Yes!!! I agree, I sure hope you're right.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#34

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:38 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
benji said:
With Contreras going on DL and likely out until end of September, I wonder if Sterns takes a more aggressive approach to obtaining a 2b replacement. The division is wide open now.


Has been for the entire season. Hasn't made him do a dang thing other than find a couple secondary bullpen arms that are eh, other than Swazak so far. Don't expect a thing to be done other than MA to count the money rolling in from the attendance this season.


Yes, yes...the guy that gave $40 million to Jeff Suppan is just in it to roll in the profits right now.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#35

Posted: August 10, 2017, 2:45 PM Post
Posts: 1640
Location: Madison, WI
Yea that's funny. This board has generally picked on MA for being 'win now' for longer than they should've been. Now bashing him fro not being 'win now' before we should. Heck there was that thread on the main board about the fight between MA/DS because MA would want to go for it so bad. One month later after the team is doing poorly (basically proving them right not to go for it) and now MA is cheap and won't go for it. Cmon yall, chill on the overreactions.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#36

Posted: August 10, 2017, 3:07 PM Post
Posts: 5741
Very simply, it's the back-up QB effect. Mark A, Stearns, and CC should always be doing something different. Mark A is stupid for throwing around money on aging vets, now he's cheap. Stearns is praised for rebuilding, now scorned for not making enough deals for a .500 team. Some people have never agreed with a single pitching change CC has ever made. The beat goes on.

If someone believes they should have, or still should be, buyers that's fine. But this continual sniping at management sounds like a hot take on the Jim Rome Show or something.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#37

Posted: August 10, 2017, 3:18 PM Post
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I've never been for a full rebuild so before you start in on someone, realize a few things. MA could very well call Stearns up and say the play on the field, rebuild or not, is in unacceptable. Go find us another second baseman or go find us another pen arm. This wouldn't kill the rebuild nor would it destroy his bank account. This has nothing to do with trying to trade for a blue chip pitcher and mortgaging the farm.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#38

Posted: August 10, 2017, 4:33 PM Post
Posts: 9992
Brew4U said:
I've never been for a full rebuild so before you start in on someone, realize a few things. MA could very well call Stearns up and say the play on the field, rebuild or not, is in unacceptable. Go find us another second baseman or go find us another pen arm. This wouldn't kill the rebuild nor would it destroy his bank account. This has nothing to do with trying to trade for a blue chip pitcher and mortgaging the farm.


They've already traded for 3 pen arms in the last month, one of them being a setup man. How many more pen arms do you want him to acquire? They are already carrying 2 guys in the pen that they've traded for.

And MA absolutely should not say that to Stearns. He should congratulate him on what he's done and tell him he trusts his judgment. Setting yet another precedent now and overriding Stearns in his decision making process the first year that we start to have success again would be very undermining and a big mistake.


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#39

Posted: August 10, 2017, 5:01 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Brew4U said:
I've never been for a full rebuild so before you start in on someone, realize a few things. MA could very well call Stearns up and say the play on the field, rebuild or not, is in unacceptable. Go find us another second baseman or go find us another pen arm. This wouldn't kill the rebuild nor would it destroy his bank account. This has nothing to do with trying to trade for a blue chip pitcher and mortgaging the farm.


They've already traded for 3 pen arms in the last month, one of them being a setup man. How many more pen arms do you want him to acquire? They are already carrying 2 guys in the pen that they've traded for.

And MA absolutely should not say that to Stearns. He should congratulate him on what he's done and tell him he trusts his judgment. Setting yet another precedent now and overriding Stearns in his decision making process the first year that we start to have success again would be very undermining and a big mistake.


We disagree on this one. It's Marks team. If he wants a two-bagger that actually plays like a pro ball player, he should be able to voice that without hurting Stearns feelings. Stearns has struck out on a pen and second base this season. I'm not saying I wouldn't have gone with Villar but it's hurt this team. He has an opportunity to remedy that for the last two months and there he sits, twiddling his thumbs watching Sogard play like a bum. If I'm MA this is unacceptable. Again, it's okay to disagree. And this isn't calling out Adam but we seem to jump down too many people's throats around here when it's a differing opinion. That's gotta stop or these boards are no better than anywhere else.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Never Mind Pitching Maybe they need to target a Bat
#40

Posted: August 10, 2017, 9:10 PM Post
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it the owner money he has the ability to add when he wants.


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