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Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade

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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#21

Posted: July 31, 2017, 5:32 PM Post
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I have no problem with trading away prospects to get talent but you just have to be realistic with the roster you have. This team is nowhere near as good as the Nationals or Dodgers. We are likely worse than the Diamondbacks and Cubs even with a few additions. So realistically we are hoping the DBacks or Cubs collapse and that we get really lucky and somehow beat 2 teams a lot better than us.

This year the NL is really stacked with top end teams, it just isn't the time to make this kind of move. For me to think we had a good chance to win the World Series this year we would have to trade for 4 or 5 players and at least one of them would need to be an ace pitcher which Sonny Gray is not. So the Brewers could have gone the Yankee's path I guess. Trade for Quintana and Darvish and a couple of the bullpen guys. Maybe we become on even footing with the lesser NL playoff teams. We may or may not make the playoffs since we have ground to make up. That would have taken at least half of our top 10 prospects with some lesser prospects as well. Unlike the Yankees we don't have a bunch of young guys in the bigs performing at a high level though so now we just traded away our near future. It just isn't a good way to run a team, especially one without deep pockets.


Last edited by Ennder on July 31, 2017, 5:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#22

Posted: July 31, 2017, 5:32 PM Post
Posts: 5858
OMG, now it's WITH certainty. And not just contending as you said, now its LEGIT contending. Instead of leaving like you promised, you keep moving the bar.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#23

Posted: July 31, 2017, 5:36 PM Post
Posts: 10176
Brewcrewin07 said:
MrTPlush said:
They are contending now!!! So looks like it is time to delete the account.

Are you like Briggs and really old afraid you will die before the next World Series appearance? Honest question because that is the only way to rationalize your thinking.


If you ask 99% of the posters here...they are legit NOT contending. Hence why no one wanted to see DS make a big trade.

Look, the window(s) for small market teams to contend is so small, that anytime you get a chance you should do whatever you can(within reason) to capitalize on that. What if that window doesn't come around again for 10 more years?? I remember people here being legit upset when DM acquired CC and Greinke. He even said at the time, when your a small market team, you only get so many opportunities, so you have to try to "go for it" when you can. He's right. None of us know what the future holds...but we do know what the present holds..and overachieveing or not, they ARE contending at the moment. We also know that standings can turn dramatically in a week or two. In two weeks again we could be looking at the Brewers on top again with a 2 or 3 game lead. Then wouldn't everyone be a little disappointed that DS didn't do a little more now to help them maybe get over the hump?? I assure you Mark A is disappointed.


"(Stearns) batting average is so high now, we’re going to listen to anything he recommends. But, just from ownership to him, there has been no pressure to divert from the plan.”

“I had a meeting with (GM) David (Stearns) and (manager) Craig (Counsell) about a week ago, and I was very clear there would be no pressure from me to divert from the plan,”

Yeah, sounds like Mark A is probably just seething right now.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#24

Posted: July 31, 2017, 5:52 PM Post
Posts: 934
adambr2 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
MrTPlush said:
They are contending now!!! So looks like it is time to delete the account.

Are you like Briggs and really old afraid you will die before the next World Series appearance? Honest question because that is the only way to rationalize your thinking.


If you ask 99% of the posters here...they are legit NOT contending. Hence why no one wanted to see DS make a big trade.

Look, the window(s) for small market teams to contend is so small, that anytime you get a chance you should do whatever you can(within reason) to capitalize on that. What if that window doesn't come around again for 10 more years?? I remember people here being legit upset when DM acquired CC and Greinke. He even said at the time, when your a small market team, you only get so many opportunities, so you have to try to "go for it" when you can. He's right. None of us know what the future holds...but we do know what the present holds..and overachieveing or not, they ARE contending at the moment. We also know that standings can turn dramatically in a week or two. In two weeks again we could be looking at the Brewers on top again with a 2 or 3 game lead. Then wouldn't everyone be a little disappointed that DS didn't do a little more now to help them maybe get over the hump?? I assure you Mark A is disappointed.


"(Stearns) batting average is so high now, we’re going to listen to anything he recommends. But, just from ownership to him, there has been no pressure to divert from the plan.”

“I had a meeting with (GM) David (Stearns) and (manager) Craig (Counsell) about a week ago, and I was very clear there would be no pressure from me to divert from the plan,”

Yeah, sounds like Mark A is probably just seething right now.


Please don't put words in my mouth...I did NOT say seething..There is a HUGE difference between seething and being disappointed. Sure Mark A said this, but there was also a blurd in fanrag last week that said Mark A was more willing to part with Brinson for Gray then Stearns was, but that he'd defer to his baseball people. I think it can be inferred from that that Mark A was a bit disappointed something wasn't worked out for Gray.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#25

Posted: July 31, 2017, 5:53 PM Post
Posts: 3857
Why is this thread still open?


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#26

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:02 PM Post
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Entertainment value.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#27

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:21 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
Look, the window(s) for small market teams to contend is so small, that anytime you get a chance you should do whatever you can(within reason) to capitalize on that. What if that window doesn't come around again for 10 more years?? I remember people here being legit upset when DM acquired CC and Greinke. He even said at the time, when your a small market team, you only get so many opportunities, so you have to try to "go for it" when you can. He's right. None of us know what the future holds...but we do know what the present holds..and overachieveing or not, they ARE contending at the moment. We also know that standings can turn dramatically in a week or two. In two weeks again we could be looking at the Brewers on top again with a 2 or 3 game lead. Then wouldn't everyone be a little disappointed that DS didn't do a little more now to help them maybe get over the hump?? I assure you Mark A is disappointed.


I wish TheCrew07 was still posting because he has countered this "short window" concept very articulately in the past, much more so than I am able to or even care to try. I think this is where you are hitting a divide with a lot of others here. You are seeking short-term gratification at the expense of giving yourself the highest possible probability to maintain longer term sustainable success. The goal for many of us here isn't to have pop-up success once or twice every 10 years where we can go all in, but rather it is to win consistently year-after-year for the foreseeable future. We desire an organization from top-to-bottom that is built to last over the long haul. The good news for many of us is that David Stearns is as close as we've had to someone that will lead the organization in this direction. You seem to make a lot of guarantees about what Stearns and Attanasio are or aren't. One thing I can guarantee you is that David Stearns does not subscribe to the Doug Melvin window theory.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#28

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:33 PM Post
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I had no issue with DS not making a move at this point. But he also has to know if those Prospects that he believed to be holding onto don't pan out then He be looking for a new Job because Mark A will want a winner.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#29

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:39 PM Post
Posts: 238
Location: Milwaukee
adambr2 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
. You mean to tell me the Brewers couldn't have afforded to part with Say Breett Phillips + to acquire Gray(not buying Oakland would have ONLY taken Brinson)??
,


I guess it's easy to be mad about trades that didn't happen when you make up hypothetical terms that were never going to be accepted.

Nobody has any idea what was or wasn't going to be accepted because nobody knows the pieces that were on the table to begin with. If Stearns offered Phillips, Ortiz, Woodruff I'm pretty sure Beane would take that over what the Yankees offered so they absolutely could have done a deal without Brinson. All the rumors sound like Beane required Brinson as part of it based on who the secondary pieces were, which makes sense.

Yes, the Brewers could have afforded to part ways with Phillips + others for Gray. But it wouldn't make much sense to do so given the overall position the Brewers are currently in and where these prospects are in their careers. Based on the Yankees offer it would take something like Phillips, Ortiz, Dubon Just to "approach" matching it. Now, you have to improve upon that to get Beane to accept the deal over the Yankees. Hader isn't going anywhere, Ray I personally don't think they'd take over a MLB ready CF so he'd be out. There's no way Stearns is giving up Ortiz and Woodruff (or Burnes) so that leaves Diaz as the 3rd piece over Dubon (which is a terrible offer on our end) or Brinson as the only logical piece that would have to be included as he'd replace Phillips.

The Yankees are giving up a MLB ready CF in Fowler (current Top 100), AA CF/SS/2b who was Top 100 entering the season and then a 2015 1st rd pick who was Top 100 entering this season who had TJ but could be better than Ortiz/Woodruff and fly through the minors and take the same route as Walker Buehler. So when the rumor is it would take Brinson to deal with the Brewers I absolutely believe it. And there's no way Stearns is parting with him hence the talks broke off.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#30

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:42 PM Post
Posts: 934
Ennder said:
I have no problem with trading away prospects to get talent but you just have to be realistic with the roster you have. This team is nowhere near as good as the Nationals or Dodgers. We are likely worse than the Diamondbacks and Cubs even with a few additions. So realistically we are hoping the DBacks or Cubs collapse and that we get really lucky and somehow beat 2 teams a lot better than us.

This year the NL is really stacked with top end teams, it just isn't the time to make this kind of move. For me to think we had a good chance to win the World Series this year we would have to trade for 4 or 5 players and at least one of them would need to be an ace pitcher which Sonny Gray is not. So the Brewers could have gone the Yankee's path I guess. Trade for Quintana and Darvish and a couple of the bullpen guys. Maybe we become on even footing with the lesser NL playoff teams. We may or may not make the playoffs since we have ground to make up. That would have taken at least half of our top 10 prospects with some lesser prospects as well. Unlike the Yankees we don't have a bunch of young guys in the bigs performing at a high level though so now we just traded away our near future. It just isn't a good way to run a team, especially one without deep pockets.


This is a great post Ennder..and I'd like to touch on the highlighted quote. First i agree with you that Gray isn't an ace, but Verlander and Darvish are. I also agree with you that they need 4-5 players..Here's what i would have done, and I think you could have done it all without touching Brinson. Now, right or wrong I'm going to base this on the prospect rankings(by system that teams gave up to acquire these players). Now also keep in mind, the topic was about what was needed to compete THIS year...so control is NOT an issue for this comparison. Here's who I would have targeted:

Darvish/Verlander
Wilson
Kinsler
Granderson

That's 4 guys that touch on the Crew's major weaknesses this year..now who would I have given up to acquire these players?? Again remember, really the only baseline we have to compare is the prospect rankings by organization..

Brewers get: Yu Darvish(the Dodgers gave up their #4, #17 & #27 prospects)
Brewers give up: (#4 Brandon Woodruff, #16 Trey Supak(had to substitute him for #17 Ryan Cordell), #27 Larry Ernesto

Brewers get: Justin Wilson
Brewers give up : Isan Daz and Jacob Nottingham

Brewers get: Ian Kinsler
Brewers give up: Hard to judge what it would have taken, but given the Brewers would have taken on salary it couldn't have taken too much..so lets just say they give them a top 30 prospect..Let's just say Kodi Medeiros

Brewers get: Curtis Granderson
Brewers give: Again, hard to say, but let's just say it's a minor piece...pick whoever you want.

In looking at this, would that REALLY have been giving up that much for the Brewers in gaining those players?? I don't think so.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#31

Posted: July 31, 2017, 6:49 PM Post
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brewmann04 said:
I had no issue with DS not making a move at this point. But he also has to know if those Prospects that he believed to be holding onto don't pan out then He be looking for a new Job because Mark A will want a winner.

Which specific prospects are you referring that his job security now hinges on? Plenty of prospects don't pan out, so I guess it would helpful to know which ones specifically now carry enough weight to jeopardize Stearns job status? If Attanasio was going to fire his GM because he didn't trade a prospect that ultimately doesn't work out (which can be due to a myriad of reasons related to health, opportunity, makeup, talent, etc.) then he probably isn't cut out to be the owner of a successful baseball organization.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#32

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:01 PM Post
Posts: 470
Location: Madison, WI
wildcat2237 said:
Thanks for sharing.

I'll bet the big trade was either with Detroit for Kinsler etc. or with Miami for Straily.

Doubt the Brewers were involved late on Gray or Darvish.

I'm just curious to see if it ultimately comes out as to what the "big trade" was.


My guess is also Straily. I was thinking he'd be a Brewer by the time I got home today and was pleasantly surprised it didn't happen. I really don't have anything against Straily and maybe time would have proven him to be a good pickup, but guys not even out of arbitration are almost guaranteed to carry a really high price-tag and I really didn't want the Brewers to go there.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#33

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:09 PM Post
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Saw something on the Bleacher Report feed that Stearns said he thinks the August trade period will be "more active than usual". What I take from this is that names with big contracts (Verlander, Kinsler, maybe Samardzjia, Cueto) were discussed quite a bit but not finalized.

What I infer from this is that the Brewers may considers some of those if they are still in contention in late August.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#34

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:18 PM Post
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It's always easier to spend someone else's money and make their own decisions for them, right brew?


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#35

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:33 PM Post
Posts: 934
LouisEly said:
Saw something on the Bleacher Report feed that Stearns said he thinks the August trade period will be "more active than usual". What I take from this is that names with big contracts (Verlander, Kinsler, maybe Samardzjia, Cueto) were discussed quite a bit but not finalized.

What I infer from this is that the Brewers may considers some of those if they are still in contention in late August.


This is what i think as well...I'd be willing to bet Stearns will claim several players at one point or another. I bet he claims Verlander and Kinsler if they are still in it in a week or two. then it depends on what could be worked out.


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Online  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#36

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:38 PM Post
Posts: 6387
Location: Kenosha, WI
Verlander is pretty similar to Braun last ear. Highly doubtful they would just let him go as complete salary relief(looks terrible for an all time great for the franchise) however no team is taking a chance on that. If Braun wasn't claimed no way Verlander is getting claimed.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#37

Posted: July 31, 2017, 7:47 PM Post
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I'm convinced you're the dude in my signature with a new account

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM
PrinceFielderx1 Said:
If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.


Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#38

Posted: July 31, 2017, 8:16 PM Post
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You have to think on game in Brinson Possine Hadar Woodruff and maybe Ortiz


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#39

Posted: July 31, 2017, 8:17 PM Post
Posts: 204
Verlander is not going to waive his no trade clause to come to Milwaukee.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#40

Posted: July 31, 2017, 8:21 PM Post
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I will have to agree on that but wonder if DS is working on something.


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