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Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade

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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#61

Posted: August 01, 2017, 10:59 AM Post
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I just find it interesting that when we're going to make a big "buy" trade in theory, the proposed deals on this board are always the ones where we give up the prospects that we've soured on or don't have high expectations for. Even the lesser guys we give up that we may not think are a huge deal (for a Kinsler deal for example) might come back to bite us. We want as many darts as possible to throw.

I basically fully endorsed the 2008 and 2011-era trades where we gave up several All-Stars and 10 WAR players and some of them seemed to be throw-ins or lower ceiling guys at the time.

Look at where this team is right now and it isn't even close to 2008 and especially 2011 on the growth arc...plus the Cubs are a little bit more longstanding competition than our rivals were in those years.

A few Kinsler-esque trades are pointless. I highly doubt that it moves the needle and it removes a dart that we can throw to be a good player down the road in our system.

Going for Gray and more is also foolish in my opinion. We will have taken everything built from when we decided to sell in '15 and pin our hopes to '18 and '19 where the chances of a division and/or World Series are still pretty bleak. "Yeah, but we could have done it without giving up Brinson." Sure, we avoided dealing Lucroy and one or two other assumed key prospects in 2011 and we had a decent team from 2012 and beyond but zero farm system to get back over the top.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#62

Posted: August 01, 2017, 11:29 AM Post
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rickh150 said:
First off filling holes at the All Star break would have helped us win 2 or 3 lost games..


I think this is said with the benefit of hindsight.... we were in pretty good shape at the break, then won our first series afterward. Noone knew at that time that losing the last game of that series would be the start of the massive slide of the next couple of weeks. I don't think anyone was sitting here on July 15th thinking that massive moves needed to be made right then and there.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#63

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:09 PM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
rickh150 said:
tmwiese55 said:
I mean, we currently have 3 healthy starting pitchers. I know it's still been good since the ASB break overall but can anyone look at a starting rotation of Nelson, Davies, Suter, ?, ? and think this is realistic right now to go all in and trade for hitters to fix those holes, while also finding relievers to fix that glaring hole, oh and also finding a legit starter or two? First, think what it would cost to fill those holes. Second, if you have that many holes are you really that close?


First off filling holes at the All Star break would have helped us win 2 or 3 lost games. Filling holes at 2B and CF wouldn't have cost much based on what rentals are going for..... take a look at what the best bullpen rental (Neshek) cost prospect wise, the best rental bat (JD Martinez) cost prospect wise....
Injuries are playing a factor with the rotation over the last week. Woodruff is going to get a shot. Garza will be back shortly. Anderson will be back in 3 weeks. Hader could start, if wanted. It's not as dire as you make it to be.....


This season/division race is not over. The Brewers outplayed the Cubs for the most part this weekend. It was line drive out after line drive out for the Brewers and our pitching really held them down. Also I believe we set a RISP franchise record over the weekend going 0 for our last 32 or something, which involves a lot of luck as we've been hitting ourselves into scoring position often enough. And this is a team without Anderson at the moment and that got 3 innings out of Guerra one of those Cubs games. The Cubs also have 4 tough series in a row coming up, and if their offense doesn't wake up they'll wind up losing a lot of games over the next 2 weeks and bring the entire division(less cincy) back into contention.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#64

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:15 PM Post
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FVBrewerFan said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
Without knowing for who or for what, does it surprise anyone the ever passive Stearns didn't pull the trigger??

https://twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/ ... 4809101312


No, but it surprises me some people actually think Stearns is passive.


He certainly has been this month letting his rivals sew up the division while he stood pat.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#65

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:24 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
For the last time DOMINGO SANTANA CANT AND WONT PLAY CF.

How about 3B?


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Online  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#66

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
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dacbrewers said:
Stearns has a 4-6 year plan...Hopefully the Brewers make the playoffs once in that time period, but if they don't I wouldn't be surprised is he was let go, paving the way for Epstein to swoosh in...joking about Epstein part.


I'd be more concerned about some other team stealing Stearns from Milwaukee.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#67

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
They are contending now!!! So looks like it is time to delete the account.

Are you like Briggs and really old afraid you will die before the next World Series appearance? Honest question because that is the only way to rationalize your thinking.


I have empathy for fans who will die before they seriously go after a championship. A lot will. Heck it's been 35 years and I see no sign that any World Series are likely anytime in the foreseeable future. There's an awful lot of fans that have passed away since 1982. They had a chance this year. Not a great chance but a chance and guess who got the 2 guys who would have been the most help? That's right. The Cubs did. I'm an optimist. I won't throw in the towel just yet. But it's discouraging.

As for the rebuild? That's almost laughable. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard about some rosy future for this team. They had more hope when John Jaha, Jeff Cirillo and David Nilsson were top prospects in their system. How'd that work? And those guys actually had some success in the big leagues. They have some nice prospects. So what, they should have. Some of them aren't producing in A ball. Oops! Brewers can't go out and buy Jon Lester's of the world. They never will.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#68

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:30 PM Post
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reillymcshane said:
MrTPlush said:
For the last time DOMINGO SANTANA CANT AND WONT PLAY CF.

How about 3B?


Braun at SS and Santana at 3B. I think that's the way I'd go.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#69

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:42 PM Post
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Bring back Weeks at second please.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#70

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:46 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:
First off filling holes at the All Star break would have helped us win 2 or 3 lost games..


I think this is said with the benefit of hindsight.... we were in pretty good shape at the break, then won our first series afterward. Noone knew at that time that losing the last game of that series would be the start of the massive slide of the next couple of weeks. I don't think anyone was sitting here on July 15th thinking that massive moves needed to be made right then and there.


I started the Kinsler thread on July 18. Many others were ready to move on from Villar, especially from leadoff spot.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#71

Posted: August 01, 2017, 12:56 PM Post
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Just about every team has a significant slump at some point in the season. I'd rather they slump now than September. If they don't pull out of it, then Gray or Kinsler would most likely not have made a difference. They've played above their heads, getting all-star numbers from cast offs and journeymen. The Cubs under performed, regardless of Quintana, they were going to play to their level at some point. The Dodgers, Nationals, and Astros are pretty much juggernauts, this is not a parity year where no one is jumping out...where a short sighted move may make sense. I think the Brewers' biggest issue has been the bullpen, they made two moves to address it. I'm fine with that.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#72

Posted: August 01, 2017, 1:02 PM Post
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rwa12 said:
Just about every team has a significant slump at some point in the season. I'd rather they slump now than September. If they don't pull out of it, then Gray or Kinsler would most likely not have made a difference. They've played above their heads, getting all-star numbers from cast offs and journeymen. The Cubs under performed, regardless of Quintana, they were going to play to their level at some point. The Dodgers, Nationals, and Astros are pretty much juggernauts, this is not a parity year where no one is jumping out...where a short sighted move may make sense. I think the Brewers' biggest issue has been the bullpen, they made two moves to address it. I'm fine with that.


Their most untalked about problem is scoring runs late, especially stringing hits together. The 2B and CF spots are holes in lineup now.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#73

Posted: August 01, 2017, 1:03 PM Post
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rickh150 said:
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:
First off filling holes at the All Star break would have helped us win 2 or 3 lost games..


I think this is said with the benefit of hindsight.... we were in pretty good shape at the break, then won our first series afterward. Noone knew at that time that losing the last game of that series would be the start of the massive slide of the next couple of weeks. I don't think anyone was sitting here on July 15th thinking that massive moves needed to be made right then and there.


I started the Kinsler thread on July 18. Many others were ready to move on from Villar, especially from leadoff spot.


Kinsler was terrible in July (.620 OPS)...barely better than Villar.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#74

Posted: August 01, 2017, 1:10 PM Post
Posts: 5858
JohnBriggs12 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
Without knowing for who or for what, does it surprise anyone the ever passive Stearns didn't pull the trigger??

https://twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/ ... 4809101312


No, but it surprises me some people actually think Stearns is passive.


He certainly has been this month letting his rivals sew up the division while he stood pat.


That's not being passive, it's being smart and not letting emotions dictate decisions.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#75

Posted: August 01, 2017, 1:16 PM Post
Posts: 5858
JohnBriggs12 said:
MrTPlush said:
They are contending now!!! So looks like it is time to delete the account.

Are you like Briggs and really old afraid you will die before the next World Series appearance? Honest question because that is the only way to rationalize your thinking.


I have empathy for fans who will die before they seriously go after a championship. A lot will. Heck it's been 35 years and I see no sign that any World Series are likely anytime in the foreseeable future. There's an awful lot of fans that have passed away since 1982. They had a chance this year. Not a great chance but a chance and guess who got the 2 guys who would have been the most help? That's right. The Cubs did. I'm an optimist. I won't throw in the towel just yet. But it's discouraging.

As for the rebuild? That's almost laughable. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard about some rosy future for this team. They had more hope when John Jaha, Jeff Cirillo and David Nilsson were top prospects in their system. How'd that work? And those guys actually had some success in the big leagues. They have some nice prospects. So what, they should have. Some of them aren't producing in A ball. Oops! Brewers can't go out and buy Jon Lester's of the world. They never will.


Yea, maybe you shouldn't be a Brewers fan. Rebuilding is so horrible and it will never work. When the time is right they will never sign a FA or make a trade. Mark A is cheap, Stearns is just this nervous kid shuttering in the corner. Things are so dire, you may want walk away now while you can.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#76

Posted: August 01, 2017, 2:44 PM Post
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I'm really totally and completely fine with the approach Stearns took this year to the trade deadline. He was very aggressive, but stopped short of letting real assets go for short term help.

The rotation figures to be even better next year, we can use some of our available money to shore up the bullpen during the offseason, and maybe trade for a 2nd baseman (or maybe see what Dubon can do there full time). At this time next year, I'd expect we're going to be in a better position than we were this year and have a better chance at the playoffs. If that's the case, Stearns should still have a lot of trade chips to go out and get us what we need.

My only disappointment this deadline was that we didn't get Quintana. I think he would've been worth the price, but even if we did get Quintana there's no guarantee that would've woken up our bats like it did for the Cubs and we could still be in relatively the same position.

Next trade deadline and especially the crazy free agency offseason of 2018-2019 should be interesting to see what Stearns/Attanasio do to put this team into contention.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#77

Posted: August 01, 2017, 5:52 PM Post
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Big Trade probably involved Miami. Maybe some sort of sending Braun home with Stanton or Straily involvement.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#78

Posted: August 01, 2017, 6:19 PM Post
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YoungGeezy1 said:
The Brewers window hasn't even started.... they have realistically no true core or players outside of Braun who have any track record that 1st half performance wasn't a fluke. This team has more holes on roster than me trying to play goalie in men's league hockey (that's a lot) Arcia is growing & learning, hopefully Shaw, Domingo, Pina are for real, Braun can't stay on field this season. Villar has been terrible. Sogard is not as great as he started out. Our staff can't stay healthy. With way it's been going, he could have traded for one but they prob get hurt as well. Broxton is fire or ice. Brinson is struggling & mostly ice right now. Thames & Aguilar I still don't know what we truely have.

This is an overachieving team. Please.... for love of all that is holy look at the Nationals roster & staff! That is a contending team! They have a real core! They have 5 guys hitting .320+ with 20+HRs! Even without Strasburg, their rotation is strong!

Trading away our system to pretend we are even close to a true contender would be laughable. Windows start when top prospects come up & perform, Arcia & know Brinson are only two. Hader isn't starting. We will get there but no need to try to skip steps.


Great rational post. This is a .470 talent ball club that played .540'ish for the first half. The small grief that I have with Stearns is that he didn't sell. That's not to say he didn't try, but probably didn't try hard enough or wasn't enamored with the return. If you believe in the bats at Biloxi and Colorado Springs, then trade the overachieving hitters in Milwaukee for some higher ceiling/controllable arms. I still can't figure out if the bullpen is retched, Counsell is clueless how to apply their talents to situations, or both.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#79

Posted: August 01, 2017, 6:42 PM Post
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I have no idea what was on the table, but I'm glad we didn't overpay for anybody. I'm in the stay the course camp. I'd be pleasantly shocked if we win big this year.

Meanwhile, we have Hader, Woodruff, Ortiz, Peralta, and Burnes coming by 2019, with a number of other prospects like Medeiros, Ponce, Diplan, Taylor Williams, Devin Williams et al. Not all of them will end up being studs but there's enough there to see you'll have some starters and relievers on the near horizon. I can't recall a period in Brewer history with that amount of young pitching talent, in numbers, even if there doesn't appear to be a Sheets or Higuera in the mix.

On offense, I think you'll see Hiura on a fast track and be up here by 2019, and he will hit. Arcia is looking legit. Santana has been all we could ask for. Brinson and Phillips look really interesting. These guys will all have growing pains, but if you combine the numbers in pitching we have with possible position players, we can be quite balanced. The early 2000s group coming up had more high level position player talent bubbling up but lacked the pitching depth.

As for the Cubs, I don't remotely believe they are invincible for the next five years. I think a number of their position players, while good, are overhyped. And they will need to spend beaucoup bucks to keep them all.

I like where we are. I don't think there is any precedent in our past that should make is concerned. If anything, history tells us we are in a better position.

I agree with the fear of losing Stearns. I hope Mark A is proactive and spends to keep him here. He's a New Yorker and I fear the Mets or somebody trying to nab him. Extend him.


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Offline  Re: Brewers were exchanging names up until deadline, including one bigger trade
#80

Posted: August 01, 2017, 6:43 PM Post
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rickh150 said:
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:
First off filling holes at the All Star break would have helped us win 2 or 3 lost games..


I think this is said with the benefit of hindsight.... we were in pretty good shape at the break, then won our first series afterward. Noone knew at that time that losing the last game of that series would be the start of the massive slide of the next couple of weeks. I don't think anyone was sitting here on July 15th thinking that massive moves needed to be made right then and there.


I started the Kinsler thread on July 18. Many others were ready to move on from Villar, especially from leadoff spot.


One trade proposal after the slide began doesn't really support your claim, especially when, as others have noted, Kinsler didn't perform well in July, and also doesn't pitch.

The trade this team should have made was the Madson/Doolittle trade on July 16th, which could have solidified the bullpen sooner and potentially swung some of the late inning losses into our favor. But again, that's with the benefit of hindsight.


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