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Chris Archer

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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 03, 2018, 10:55 PM Post
Posts: 3280
Location: New Berlin, WI
MadThinker88 said:
IIRC there is also a difference in the amount of player control. Right now there are 4 yrs of control for Archer (at cheaper rate of pay). Going INTO last season, Sale had 3 total years of control remaining.

While Sale had a better overall track record going into his trade, Archer's additional control year & reduced salary cost makes a HUGE difference. Also as Reillymcshane pointed out above: Archer also fulfills a need for Tampa at this point.

I can see Archer costing a team more than Boston paid for Sale.

Yes, Tampa is willing to move Archer at this point, but they don't HAVE to deal him now. They can wait for someone to overwhelm them or wait to see if someone gets needy enough at the 2018 trade deadline to pony up even more value (thinking Archer is the needed piece to make/ ensure a post-season trip).


You make good points, but teams tend to pay a premium for elite talent. Look no further than the haul for Chapman versus the haul for Robertson AND kahnle. Even with archer having a year more control and lower salaries, sale still has far more value to other teams. I personally would be much more inclined to trade a couple top prospects in a package for 3 years of sale than 4 years of archer.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 04, 2018, 12:24 AM Post
Posts: 4158
Sale is a true Ace. Archer isn't even close in Sale's Value even with an extra year of team control. Archer's BWar last 5 seasons is a total of 12. 12! Sale had 24.7 BWAR And I know others respect Fangraphs more in rankings. Sale 29FWAR Archer 17.5. For 3million a year savings and 1 less year of team control.

I think the baseball world is going to open up on the Brewers prospects pre-season rankings and the values some are putting our guys at are going to look foolish when these guys are in the top 50 and not barely in the top 100. Brinson is in the top 15 on MLB.com while posting his exceptional numbers when healthy. Burnes is off and running proving doubters wrong as to being a SP and is full on legit with his talent. It took him 16 Starts to reach AA where 16 starts there resulted in a 2.1ERA. He should be top 50 if not top 35 in no time continuing his success. Harrison went from a 32% K rate, 6HR 8SB season to 27% K rate and 21HR 27SB while possessing a 70-80 grade OF arm will be 22 entering AA most likely. He's going to be close to top 60 rankings based on where he's fitting in the Brewers team rankings.

Could care less on the gotta give up talent to acquire talent. These 3 and I should include Hiura to this point should come with an immediate hanging up of the phone if asked for in a trade for Archer(not an Ace) These are a name you include in a Sale trade and even then it would only be 1 of them. Brinson, Ortiz, Peralta, and filler would match what Boston gave up.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:05 PM Post
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There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:11 PM Post
Posts: 1311
splitterpfj said:
There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


Santana
Woodruff
Ortiz
Dubon

Make this happen.

This you make a run at Cobb or Lynn.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:29 PM Post
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Posts: 421
We just have to get these two fans from draysbay.com a job in the Tampa F.O.

Why Domingo Santana should be the Rays #1 target before Spring Training
The Rays team is going to be just fine vs RHP in 2018. There’s enough talent there (Span, KK, Miller, Dickerson, and if they sign Duda)—that’s 5 above average bats vs RHP—and that doesn’t count Souza (121 wRC+ vs RHP in 2017), or Ramos or IF Duffy is healthy.
It’s vs LHP that will be the struggle. At this point the only above average bats vs LHP the Rays have is Souza, Ramos, and Duffy—and that’s contingent on Ramos and Duffy being healthy. They have a heavy platoon split roster…and without adding a couple bats, they will be unwatchable vs LHP.
Domingo Santana would be an incredible pairing with Souza. I don’t care about his defensive numbers. That’s why you have a DH. And strong, right handed bats like his don’t grow on trees. If the Rays don’t develop them, they can’t afford them. I get it can’t be at the expense of Archer—but an offer of Odorizzi and Colome should come pretty damn close. It sucks that the Rays really don’t have a pitcher that fits between the tier of Archer and Odorizzi available via trade.
Santana matches the Rays greatest offensive weakness and also is not a platoon bat, something this offense greatly needs. He is also a bat that doesn’t just help now, but also during the next wave with four years of team control. Maybe they can sign him to a team-friendly extension. IMO, Santana is a player the Rays should be very aggressive to acquire.
Posted by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 29, 2018 | 11:47 AM

Agreed. Whether it be for a big deal for Archer (with two or three other very good pieces coming back) or for Odorizzi (with other smaller pieces by both teams to make it work if necessary), he is a guy that fits the Rays plan and budget moving forward.
Posted by budman3 on Jan 29, 2018 | 1:36 PM

https://www.draysbay.com/2018/1/29/16944560/tampa-bay-rays-news-and-links-rays-sign-minor-league-deals-christian-yelich-lorenzo-cain-ryan-weber#comments


Also wonder if Aguilar is of any interest to the Rays as a chance to start the year in a 1B platoon with B. Miller so they can leave J. Bauers in the minors to start the year?


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:30 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 421
We just have to get these two fans from draysbay.com a job in the Tampa F.O.

Why Domingo Santana should be the Rays #1 target before Spring Training
The Rays team is going to be just fine vs RHP in 2018. There’s enough talent there (Span, KK, Miller, Dickerson, and if they sign Duda)—that’s 5 above average bats vs RHP—and that doesn’t count Souza (121 wRC+ vs RHP in 2017), or Ramos or IF Duffy is healthy.
It’s vs LHP that will be the struggle. At this point the only above average bats vs LHP the Rays have is Souza, Ramos, and Duffy—and that’s contingent on Ramos and Duffy being healthy. They have a heavy platoon split roster…and without adding a couple bats, they will be unwatchable vs LHP.
Domingo Santana would be an incredible pairing with Souza. I don’t care about his defensive numbers. That’s why you have a DH. And strong, right handed bats like his don’t grow on trees. If the Rays don’t develop them, they can’t afford them. I get it can’t be at the expense of Archer—but an offer of Odorizzi and Colome should come pretty damn close. It sucks that the Rays really don’t have a pitcher that fits between the tier of Archer and Odorizzi available via trade.
Santana matches the Rays greatest offensive weakness and also is not a platoon bat, something this offense greatly needs. He is also a bat that doesn’t just help now, but also during the next wave with four years of team control. Maybe they can sign him to a team-friendly extension. IMO, Santana is a player the Rays should be very aggressive to acquire.
Posted by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 29, 2018 | 11:47 AM

Agreed. Whether it be for a big deal for Archer (with two or three other very good pieces coming back) or for Odorizzi (with other smaller pieces by both teams to make it work if necessary), he is a guy that fits the Rays plan and budget moving forward.
Posted by budman3 on Jan 29, 2018 | 1:36 PM

https://www.draysbay.com/2018/1/29/16944560/tampa-bay-rays-news-and-links-rays-sign-minor-league-deals-christian-yelich-lorenzo-cain-ryan-weber#comments


Also wonder if Aguilar is of any interest to the Rays as a chance to start the year in a 1B platoon with B. Miller so they can leave J. Bauers in the minors to start the year?


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:31 PM Post
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Posts: 4664
Location: Three Lakes, WI
splitterpfj said:
There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


Corbin Burnes
Freddy Peralta
Jake Gatewood
Jacob Nottingham

As noted above, the Rays don't really have a need for Santana, unless it was to flip him later. I think he goes to a contender. The four above are tough to give up, but I think it's a fair deal. All 4 are high upside players.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:32 PM Post
Posts: 3280
Location: New Berlin, WI
splitterpfj said:
There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


Santana, Ortiz, Diplan, one of houser/bickford/williams, low level lottery ticket.

Santana helps them win now and for the next handful of years, and that's a lot of pitching potential heading back.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:37 PM Post
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Posts: 1762
Location: At the gettin' place
KeithStone53151 said:
splitterpfj said:
There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


Santana, Ortiz, Diplan, one of houser/bickford/williams, low level lottery ticket.

Santana helps them win now and for the next handful of years, and that's a lot of pitching potential heading back.


This is the dream scenario. There's literally no one there that I'd be sad to see go.

That would be my offer as well. I can't imagine Tampa accepting it, but who knows?


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 4:41 PM Post
Posts: 3280
Location: New Berlin, WI
StearnsFTW said:
KeithStone53151 said:
splitterpfj said:
There’s no point in going for it, “kinda.” The Brewers need an impactful addition to the starting rotation.

Go for it, what’s your offer for Archer at this point?


Santana, Ortiz, Diplan, one of houser/bickford/williams, low level lottery ticket.

Santana helps them win now and for the next handful of years, and that's a lot of pitching potential heading back.


This is the dream scenario. There's literally no one there that I'd be sad to see go.

That would be my offer as well. I can't imagine Tampa accepting it, but who knows?


I'd swap ortiz and peralta if they have a preference. If they wanted Ray or Gatewood or Grisham instead of Diplan that would also be fine with me. I think Santana gets us 4/5 of the way there, Ortiz gets us pretty much the rest of the way...the other players are sweeteners as after all we're getting the best player in the deal.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 6:19 PM Post
Posts: 575
Santana, Woodruff, Ray/Grisham & Pennington is the most that I would offer.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 6:49 PM Post
Posts: 418
Archer has a 3 WAR the last 2 seasons combined, with a league average era+. Can we stop acting like he’s an elite pitcher? He’s with looking into, but not for a King’s ransom


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 6:56 PM Post
Posts: 1311
Devinep said:
Archer has a 3 WAR the last 2 seasons combined, with a league average era+. Can we stop acting like he’s an elite pitcher? He’s with looking into, but not for a King’s ransom



Factor in he's pitching in a very tough AL division (Yanks, Bos and Balt) move to the NL, gets to face the pitcher. Durable. Sign me up!!!!


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Online  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 7:07 PM Post
Posts: 3361
Location: Madison, WI
Signed for 4/32ish when FA pitchers are trying to get almost that much for one season


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 7:33 PM Post
Posts: 418
KCBrewerfan34 said:
Devinep said:
Archer has a 3 WAR the last 2 seasons combined, with a league average era+. Can we stop acting like he’s an elite pitcher? He’s with looking into, but not for a King’s ransom



Factor in he's pitching in a very tough AL division (Yanks, Bos and Balt) move to the NL, gets to face the pitcher. Durable. Sign me up!!!!


Sign me up too, but it’s giving up a lot more than just signing up to get him. Great contract, but good player, not give up the farm player


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 7:37 PM Post
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Posts: 9145
I cant see trading a ton for this guy.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 7:42 PM Post
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Posts: 4664
Location: Three Lakes, WI
brewmann04 said:
I cant see trading a ton for this guy.


Dude, you are obsessed with getting a pitcher, but don't want to trade a lot for Archer. Who do you want?


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 7:43 PM Post
Posts: 126
None of the packages above. Would MUCH rather sign Darvish/Arrieta/Cobb, and roll with one of them, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, and WoodruffGuerra/etc., with Jimmy hopefully coming back strong in June. Rather have Santana in the lineup and Braun at 1B. Remember, the Crew's pitching was not so much the issue last year as much as its lack of timely hitting down the stretch.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 8:07 PM Post
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Posts: 2975
Santana, Woodruff, and a upper-mid-tier prospect (Peralta?) seems fair.

I have to imagine Stearns is kicking the tires hard on Archer, since he is one of the only SP available who fits the "1-5 year window" strategy like Yelich.


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Offline  Re: Chris Archer
Posted: January 29, 2018, 8:13 PM Post
Posts: 1311
SandyTolan said:
None of the packages above. Would MUCH rather sign Darvish/Arrieta/Cobb, and roll with one of them, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, and WoodruffGuerra/etc., with Jimmy hopefully coming back strong in June. Rather have Santana in the lineup and Braun at 1B. Remember, the Crew's pitching was not so much the issue last year as much as its lack of timely hitting down the stretch.


That’s a great plan but Darvish is reportedly waiting for the Dodgers and the Rangers and Cobb has a relationship with the Cubs. Boras thinks Arrietta should get $150 for 6 years (man is he high). IMHO the move here is Archer, you lock the TB GM in a room with Stearns and stormy Daniels and you get this deal done.


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