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J.T. Realmuto

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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 8:57 AM Post
Posts: 16901
I just don't get their infatuation with Kratz. Erik Kratz is not the only catcher in MLB who can handle a pitching staff. He's a fantastic story and I'm happy for him, but this should have been the end of it for him. He already isn't very good and at his age it could get a lot worse fast.

Any opening day 2018 roster that involves Kratz starting more than 25% of games will be pretty disappointing to me.

Catcher is a huge opportunity for an upgrade. I wish we had gotten Ramos, but it does sound like he wanted to go to New York so I'm not going to get too worked up about it. But the status quo isn't good enough.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:06 AM Post
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Posts: 6961
My first choice would be to find a way to acquire Realmuto. If the Marlins are serious about needing MLB talent for him, the Brewers actually match up pretty well in that department.

My second choice would be signing Grandal to a 4-year deal. I love his bat, and the defensive deficiencies he had in the playoffs are not who he is I believe.

I think Pina is fine in a job share role, but I would not be pleased if he is sharing that job with Kratz. While it wouldn't be ideal, I think I'd rather just see them sink or swim with Nottingham getting 50-75% of the starts behind the plate if they are going with the status quo.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:12 AM Post
Posts: 4096
Location: Madison, WI
Agree, I'd rather go with Pina/nottingham with Pina in the tradition 2/3 of starts role. Have Kratz in AAA as injury insurance and if Nottingham can't hack it while helping out with the young pitchers there basically like another coach.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:12 AM Post
Posts: 800
adambr2 said:
I just don't get their infatuation with Kratz. Erik Kratz is not the only catcher in MLB who can handle a pitching staff. He's a fantastic story and I'm happy for him, but this should have been the end of it for him. He already isn't very good and at his age it could get a lot worse fast.

Any opening day 2018 roster that involves Kratz starting more than 25% of games will be pretty disappointing to me.

Catcher is a huge opportunity for an upgrade. I wish we had gotten Ramos, but it does sound like he wanted to go to New York so I'm not going to get too worked up about it. But the status quo isn't good enough.


2019 Erik Kratz AAA catcher and MLB backup plan.
2020 Erik Kratz MiLB pitching coach/catcher.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:14 AM Post
Posts: 800
tmwiese55 said:
Agree, I'd rather go with Pina/nottingham with Pina in the tradition 2/3 of starts role. Have Kratz in AAA as injury insurance and if Nottingham can't hack it while helping out with the young pitchers there basically like another coach.


I replied to Adam before reading your post.


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Online  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:15 AM Post
Posts: 3420
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
My first choice would be to find a way to acquire Realmuto. If the Marlins are serious about needing MLB talent for him, the Brewers actually match up pretty well in that department.

My second choice would be signing Grandal to a 4-year deal. I love his bat, and the defensive deficiencies he had in the playoffs are not who he is I believe.

I think Pina is fine in a job share role, but I would not be pleased if he is sharing that job with Kratz. While it wouldn't be ideal, I think I'd rather just see them sink or swim with Nottingham getting 50-75% of the starts behind the plate if they are going with the status quo.



Wasn't Grandal benched the in the 2017 playoffs as well? Austin Barnes isn't the worst, but if we're going to pay I'd guess 60 million at a minimium for 4 years of a Catcher, I hope the guy can fend off a guy like him in the post-season. Grandal might have been our most valuable player in the NLCS.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:20 AM Post
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Posts: 6961
HiAndTight said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
My first choice would be to find a way to acquire Realmuto. If the Marlins are serious about needing MLB talent for him, the Brewers actually match up pretty well in that department.

My second choice would be signing Grandal to a 4-year deal. I love his bat, and the defensive deficiencies he had in the playoffs are not who he is I believe.

I think Pina is fine in a job share role, but I would not be pleased if he is sharing that job with Kratz. While it wouldn't be ideal, I think I'd rather just see them sink or swim with Nottingham getting 50-75% of the starts behind the plate if they are going with the status quo.



Wasn't Grandal benched the in the 2017 playoffs as well? Austin Barnes isn't the worst, but if we're going to pay I'd guess 60 million at a minimium for 4 years of a Catcher, I hope the guy can fend off a guy like him in the post-season. Grandal might have been our most valuable player in the NLCS.


He was no doubt bad against the Brewers in that series, and his bat went cold in 2017, which led to his benching. He has been very consistent otherwise throughout his career, though, and it would be my hope that those poor showings on the big stage may temper his market. I sure as heck am not going to pay $60 million for 4 years of him.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:23 AM Post
Posts: 16901
I would also tend to view his playoff performances as abberations and take a shot on Grandal. Putting too much stock in a small playoff sample is how we ended up with Jeff Suppan.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 11:35 AM Post
Posts: 4356
Location: New Berlin, WI
adambr2 said:
I would also tend to view his playoff performances as abberations and take a shot on Grandal. Putting too much stock in a small playoff sample is how we ended up with Jeff Suppan.


While i agree we shouldn't put too much stock in his playoff defense, i don't know that I'd target him. I honestly can't see him getting less than Ramos, and who knows how much more he'll get. Im not sure I'd want to pay that AND another draft pick


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 9:08 PM Post
Posts: 215
KeithStone53151 said:
anglotiger said:
KeithStone53151 said:
I understand the argument, but there are definitely more catchers available than jobs for catchers.


Sure there are, but how many of them are really good - a significant upgrade on what a team already has as their starter?


When I read this the first time, I saw "what OUR team"...so thought you were referring to the Pina/Kratz/Nottingham combo. I guess I just read it wrong.



I've never done anything like that before... [laughing]


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 18, 2018, 11:46 PM Post
Posts: 7851
adambr2 said:
I just don't get their infatuation with Kratz.


perhaps the new undervalued tool that Stearns and Counsell are adding is "veteran presence." Last year's team seemed to get along as well as any group we've seen. Adding older players that are hungry could help.


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Online  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 10:38 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 11811
Location: Milwaukee, WI
The team won a lot of ball games with Kratz last year. Some things are not measured by stats and that is hard for people to wrap their minds around. It doesn't mean it will happen again this season but it was definitely a good fit a season ago.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 10:57 AM Post
Posts: 4096
Location: Madison, WI
They won a lot of games before the deadline too and yet turned over like half the roster to finish the year. They won a lot with Arcia hitting .120 but still tried to improve. Kratz is simply a terrible hitter. Great story and seems like a great guy, I'll be rooting for him but if you want to win the WS it seems like you shouldn't go into the year planning on half your starts at C coming from a near pitcher level hitter. They won at the end of the year/Sept due to the BP and Yelich going in Barry Bonds mode. Sure Kratz can take some credit for helping the pitchers but everything said about Kratz in that regard was said about Pina the year before when so many pitchers improved and overachieved.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 11:17 AM Post
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Posts: 1194
I don't think having Kratz would stop the team from pursuing an upgrade. I agree with a few others that he was resigned as insurance and maybe some sort of transition into a coaching role.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 1:12 PM Post
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Posts: 2139
tmwiese55 said:
They won a lot of games before the deadline too and yet turned over like half the roster to finish the year. They won a lot with Arcia hitting .120 but still tried to improve. Kratz is simply a terrible hitter. Great story and seems like a great guy, I'll be rooting for him but if you want to win the WS it seems like you shouldn't go into the year planning on half your starts at C coming from a near pitcher level hitter. They won at the end of the year/Sept due to the BP and Yelich going in Barry Bonds mode. Sure Kratz can take some credit for helping the pitchers but everything said about Kratz in that regard was said about Pina the year before when so many pitchers improved and overachieved.


Avg C 2018 233/304/374 (84 wRC+)
Pina 2018 252/307/395 (85 wRC+)
Kratz 2018 236/280/355 (70 wRC+)
Avg P 2018 115/144/148 (-25 wRC+)

Kratz hit 15% worse than Pina last year, but was still 95% better than the average pitcher.

That means that Kratz was about 633% nearer to hitting like Pina (or an average C) than to hitting like a pitcher.

Despite Kratz having only the 39th most framing chances in 2018, he ranked 10th in framing runs per BPro. It seems the reason he was catching Miley/Chacin exclusively is because analytics likely showed they would benefit the most from additional borderline strike calls & Kratz gave them the best chance to get those calls. It worked.

I'd prefer an upgrade to C before the season starts, but Red Sox catchers hit for a league worst 40 wRC+last season & they still won the World Series.


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Online  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 1:29 PM Post
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Posts: 11811
Location: Milwaukee, WI
This ^^^^^ was a heck of a post.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 19, 2018, 1:34 PM Post
Posts: 4096
Location: Madison, WI
sveumrules said:
tmwiese55 said:
They won a lot of games before the deadline too and yet turned over like half the roster to finish the year. They won a lot with Arcia hitting .120 but still tried to improve. Kratz is simply a terrible hitter. Great story and seems like a great guy, I'll be rooting for him but if you want to win the WS it seems like you shouldn't go into the year planning on half your starts at C coming from a near pitcher level hitter. They won at the end of the year/Sept due to the BP and Yelich going in Barry Bonds mode. Sure Kratz can take some credit for helping the pitchers but everything said about Kratz in that regard was said about Pina the year before when so many pitchers improved and overachieved.


Avg C 2018 233/304/374 (84 wRC+)
Pina 2018 252/307/395 (85 wRC+)
Kratz 2018 236/280/355 (70 wRC+)
Avg P 2018 115/144/148 (-25 wRC+)

Kratz hit 15% worse than Pina last year, but was still 95% better than the average pitcher.

That means that Kratz was about 633% nearer to hitting like Pina (or an average C) than to hitting like a pitcher.

Despite Kratz having only the 39th most framing chances in 2018, he ranked 10th in framing runs per BPro. It seems the reason he was catching Miley/Chacin exclusively is because analytics likely showed they would benefit the most from additional borderline strike calls & Kratz gave them the best chance to get those calls. It worked.

I'd prefer an upgrade to C before the season starts, but Red Sox catchers hit for a league worst 40 wRC+last season & they still won the World Series.


Yes i know it's hyperbole to use the pitcher level thing because yea of course he's probably going to hit above .200. It's just a common phrase we all use to say someone is an awful hitter. Maybe we all should get rid of it, but it's just an exaggeration to make the point. Still, I do not expect Kratz to match his hitting numbers from last year.

The Bos analogy is one of those things you can talk in circles about that's really pointless. Like, Royals won without an ace P so no one needs one. Or IDK the Cubs won with a light hitting SS so you shouldn't try to get good hitting at SS. Basically each team is different so it's tough to make blanket things like that hold up. We of course only had 3 guys who hit consistently all year in Cain, Yelich, Shaw. And one of them shouldn't play vs lefties. Anything we can do to stabilize the offense should be explored.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 20, 2018, 4:25 PM Post
Posts: 4356
Location: New Berlin, WI
sveumrules said:
tmwiese55 said:
They won a lot of games before the deadline too and yet turned over like half the roster to finish the year. They won a lot with Arcia hitting .120 but still tried to improve. Kratz is simply a terrible hitter. Great story and seems like a great guy, I'll be rooting for him but if you want to win the WS it seems like you shouldn't go into the year planning on half your starts at C coming from a near pitcher level hitter. They won at the end of the year/Sept due to the BP and Yelich going in Barry Bonds mode. Sure Kratz can take some credit for helping the pitchers but everything said about Kratz in that regard was said about Pina the year before when so many pitchers improved and overachieved.


Avg C 2018 233/304/374 (84 wRC+)
Pina 2018 252/307/395 (85 wRC+)
Kratz 2018 236/280/355 (70 wRC+)
Avg P 2018 115/144/148 (-25 wRC+)

Kratz hit 15% worse than Pina last year, but was still 95% better than the average pitcher.

That means that Kratz was about 633% nearer to hitting like Pina (or an average C) than to hitting like a pitcher.

Despite Kratz having only the 39th most framing chances in 2018, he ranked 10th in framing runs per BPro. It seems the reason he was catching Miley/Chacin exclusively is because analytics likely showed they would benefit the most from additional borderline strike calls & Kratz gave them the best chance to get those calls. It worked.

I'd prefer an upgrade to C before the season starts, but Red Sox catchers hit for a league worst 40 wRC+last season & they still won the World Series.


I tend to agree with tmwiese here. Clearly he was exaggerating saying that Kratz hit like a pitcher. To throw a bunch of data points up there showing how wrong that exaggeration is...I'll be nice and just say that's weird. Erik Kratz is a bad hitter. He's even a bad hitter for a catcher. And he's also not that good a defender. He's mediocre at blocking balls, mediocre thrower of the baseball at this point, I'll give you he might be a good pitch framer...but I think that ability is wildly overexaggerated and very rarely comes into play. You can't justify keeping a declining 38-39 year old catcher that can't hit and is a mediocre defender as the first backup on a contending team because he's a good pitch framer.

And I'll also give you that the day we can spend $200+ million in payroll along with controlling a handful of superstar caliber players on team friendly deals, at that point...we can get away with having a catcher like Kratz as the first backup option and expect to seriously contend.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 20, 2018, 6:13 PM Post
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Posts: 2139
I don't think that pointing out how ridiculous an exaggeration is is any weirder than having to make ridiculous exaggerations in the first place to support a position.

I guess what I don't understand is if Kratz is such a bad hitter, a bad blocker & a bad thrower...why was he playing so much down the stretch & in the playoffs?

The only things left are framing & leadership/working with pitchers. If you think framing is hard to measure, try to quantify the latter.

Ultimately the front office thought whatever Kratz brought to the table outside of hitting, blocking & throwing was enough to overcome his deficiencies in those areas or else Pina would have been playing more often. I don't think they'd intentionally put someone they judged to be a worse option in the lineup more often than someone they judged to be a better option.


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Offline  Re: J.T. Realmuto
Posted: December 20, 2018, 9:29 PM Post
Posts: 4356
Location: New Berlin, WI
I think they played kratz because they thought he managed the game better and was a veteran presence. I also never said he was a bad defender, simply a mediocre one. He's not a Maldonado all defense type that who cares if he posts 550 ops, the defense is worth it.

I would be surprised if kratz posted above 600 ops at the mlb level again


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