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Lorenzo Cain

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Offline  Lorenzo Cain
#1

Posted: January 04, 2018, 7:15 AM Post
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This has been in the back of my mind all off-season, but now Ken Rosenthal is reporting the Brewers have shown interest in Lorenzo Cain (LINK). I presume a Cain signing would almost assuredly coincide with a trade in which the team would use their logjam of outfielders as trade assets. Out of the remaining position players on the free agent market I do think Cain represents the best value. I won’t copy and paste Rosenthal’s article because it is behind The Athletic’s paywall, but he acknowledges that it is an odd fit unless the Brewers trade from their OF group and also notes that Cain has been discussed as a frequent topic of conversation during the off-season among Brewers staff according to his sources.


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Online  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#2

Posted: January 04, 2018, 7:21 AM Post
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I can’t believe he will be 32 this season. Where does time go?!? This would be a fine pickup if we moved other outfielders.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#3

Posted: January 04, 2018, 7:49 AM Post
Posts: 266
Still a very good player. If both Santana and Broxton are moved, hopefully for either MLB-ready or high minors pitching, then Cain would make sense, depending on the deal of course. With the Brewers shopping both Santana and Broxton this might very well be the plan, essentially adding the wages of Cain in exchange for pitching arriving through trades. That of course assumes that the remaining players step up to replace Santanas offensive production, or that the Brewers believe that 2017 was peak Santana.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#4

Posted: January 04, 2018, 8:01 AM Post
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Deal Broxton and sign Cain, although I think he's gonna be expensive

Braun-Cain-Santana

Hell yes!


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#5

Posted: January 04, 2018, 8:34 AM Post
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I'd be fine with Carlos Gomez or Cain. They're both the same age. Cain makes better contact, but Gomez could be a bit cheaper. An OF quartet of Braun, Brinson, Phillips and Cain or Gomez? That will save some runs. Brinson and Phillips won't be arby eligible until Braun and Cain (assuming a 3 year deal) are off the books allowing money to be spent elsewhere.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#6

Posted: January 04, 2018, 8:41 AM Post
Posts: 576
Are the Brewers kicking the tires on everyone or will we see a ton of roster turnover yet?

I am guessing MA is letting them spend and they are looking at a lot of different plans to use it.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#7

Posted: January 04, 2018, 8:46 AM Post
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I like Cain alot in his present state, but the thought of paying 2/3 of our OF big money when they're starting to get close to the ledge scares me a bit.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#8

Posted: January 04, 2018, 8:55 AM Post
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Location: Kenosha, WI
Let’s see:

Has only played more than 140 games once and offensively has been pretty average his entire career while depending on defense to bring a majority of his value.

Sound like a pretty solid disaster signing in the making.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#9

Posted: January 04, 2018, 9:06 AM Post
Posts: 576
MrTPlush said:
Let’s see:

Has only played more than 140 games once and offensively has been pretty average his entire career while depending on defense to bring a majority of his value.

Sound like a pretty solid disaster signing in the making.


What is he asking? It's hard to predict something will be a disaster when you don't know the details.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#10

Posted: January 04, 2018, 9:07 AM Post
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Hard pass.

Pass on Gomez too.

Our strength could be our future outfielders, why do we want re-treads and guys that are not that great?

Can't we just sit back and see what we have in "our" guys for once and quit messing with guys that won't make any kind of a difference anyway?


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Online  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#11

Posted: January 04, 2018, 10:00 AM Post
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If the Brewers are going down the route of dealing Broxton and Santana and signing a FA, I would much rather they sign Carlos Gomez. Mostly because he likely will be significantly cheaper than Cain. I don't love this path but would 100% make signing Gomez a priority as insurance in the event the Brewers choose this route given the possibility of Brinson or Phillips struggling.


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Online  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#12

Posted: January 04, 2018, 10:03 AM Post
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I guess I'm a bit lost as to how Cain isn't a good player or that he wouldn't make a difference?

Cain is basically Broxton but he gets on base (along with hitting dingers and swiping bases) and he actually does play good defense and doesn't just flash it once in a while. If he can be had at a reasonable amount, why not? Especially if we are considering trading away Santana-Brinson-Phillips-Broxton.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#13

Posted: January 04, 2018, 10:05 AM Post
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Location: Kenosha, WI
wallus said:
MrTPlush said:
Let’s see:

Has only played more than 140 games once and offensively has been pretty average his entire career while depending on defense to bring a majority of his value.

Sound like a pretty solid disaster signing in the making.


What is he asking? It's hard to predict something will be a disaster when you don't know the details.


Until otherwise reported I go off the assumption of what he is realistically expected to sign for and what similar players have gotten recently. So you are looking at 4/$70mil.


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Online  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#14

Posted: January 04, 2018, 10:22 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
wallus said:
MrTPlush said:
Let’s see:

Has only played more than 140 games once and offensively has been pretty average his entire career while depending on defense to bring a majority of his value.

Sound like a pretty solid disaster signing in the making.


What is he asking? It's hard to predict something will be a disaster when you don't know the details.


Until otherwise reported I go off the assumption of what he is realistically expected to sign for and what similar players have gotten recently. So you are looking at 4/$70mil.


Let's say we can get him at 3/$45... is that enough of a "discount" to take a shot at him if we are moving on from other OF's? That would have him under contract at 32, 33, 34.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#15

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:13 AM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
I think a lot of the rumors going around have a shade of truth but are mostly incorrect. I suspect Stearns is checking in and agents are telling reporters that it's "interest". The rumor on Cain confirms it as signing him is so unlikely. Bringing on Cain could only potentially make sense if we were planning to deal multiple outfielders. Maybe Stearns has trades lined up for Broxton/Santana and really is showing interest in Cain. Far and away more likely is he made a phone call to see the price tag, maybe for use in negotiations for his outfielders. "Hey you can either pay Cain X for X years or trade for Broxton at a fraction of the cost" type conversation.

Again, I don't know this with any certainty. But do you all really think with the outfielders currently on the roster that Stearns is seriously interested in Cain? Stuff like this requires reading between the lines.


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Online  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#16

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:17 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:

Again, I don't know this with any certainty. But do you all really think with the outfielders currently on the roster that Stearns is seriously interested in Cain? Stuff like this requires reading between the lines.


None of us really know, you're right there. It's all speculation. My guess is if there is interest there, it shows he really is serious about moving Santana and/or Broxton. Maybe this is another way to signal that to other teams. I don't know.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#17

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:48 AM Post
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Only plausible scenario to me:

-Santana is dealt for either low minors prospects or similarly aged 2B or pitching.
-Broxton dealt.

Cain comes in on a short(er) deal and plays some RF. Braun/Brinson/Cain with Phillips getting a lot of starts against RHP. Braun gets some 1B time (pipe dream).

One more prospect stash while still keeping a pretty competitive 2018 roster.

You probably don't get full value out of Cain in RF, though.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#18

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:49 AM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
Only plausible scenario to me:

-Santana is dealt for either low minors prospects or similarly aged 2B or pitching.
-Broxton dealt.

Cain comes in on a short(er) deal and plays some RF. Braun/Brinson/Cain with Phillips getting a lot of starts against RHP. Braun gets some 1B time (pipe dream).

One more prospect stash while still keeping a pretty competitive 2018 roster.

You probably don't get full value out of Cain in RF, though.


No way Santana gets traded for low level prospects or a 2B.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#19

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 1046
Location: New Berlin, WI
JohnBriggs12 said:
bill hAll Star said:
Only plausible scenario to me:

-Santana is dealt for either low minors prospects or similarly aged 2B or pitching.
-Broxton dealt.

Cain comes in on a short(er) deal and plays some RF. Braun/Brinson/Cain with Phillips getting a lot of starts against RHP. Braun gets some 1B time (pipe dream).

One more prospect stash while still keeping a pretty competitive 2018 roster.

You probably don't get full value out of Cain in RF, though.


No way Santana gets traded for low level prospects or a 2B.


Santana has a ton of value. GM's can nitpick his defense if they want to try and gain leverage, but he's still a far better defender than JD Martinez and that guy is gonna get $150 million this offseason. Santana isn't quite as good a hitter as Martinez, but he's fairly close and their overall production likely won't be far off over the next few years.


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Offline  Re: Lorenzo Cain
#20

Posted: January 04, 2018, 11:58 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
bill hAll Star said:
Only plausible scenario to me:

-Santana is dealt for either low minors prospects or similarly aged 2B or pitching.
-Broxton dealt.

Cain comes in on a short(er) deal and plays some RF. Braun/Brinson/Cain with Phillips getting a lot of starts against RHP. Braun gets some 1B time (pipe dream).

One more prospect stash while still keeping a pretty competitive 2018 roster.

You probably don't get full value out of Cain in RF, though.


No way Santana gets traded for low level prospects or a 2B.


I tend to agree, but if you believe that Cain can be an elite RF for 3 years as he exits his prime, you basically are swapping out equally valuable players, paying a little bit more, but getting more potential elite players in your system.

Lots of uncertainty of course. Can Cain remain valuable given that he's a speed/defense-oriented player exiting his prime? I'm still penciling Brinson in at some CF (or maybe he goes to RF). Are you "wasting" one of those guys' elite defense in RF at Miller Park? I tend to think Santana's bat staying what it is (and maybe improving) is more of a sure thing, but there is still uncertainty there.

A lot of ifs there, just a hypothetical. I don't see any other reason to go after Cain. Obviously you could have the Santana for Salazar deal as rumored as well and it still serves a similar purpose to grab Cain and put him in RF (with plenty of CF as well if one wants).


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