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Danny Salazar

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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#21

Posted: January 09, 2018, 9:41 AM Post
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MadThinker88 said:
cubsdie said:
Yeah, I'd be happy with Joseph's trade. I would also substitute Julian Merryweather for Allen though.

Not sure if that deal would fly for Cleveland. There doesn't seem to be room for Santana there. Brantley/Zimmer/Chisenhall/Allen seems OK.


It wouldn't fly for Cleveland.

IF Salazar is getting dealt, then Julian goes no where. Here is why: The starting depth (beyond the guys in Cleveland) is thin at the start of the year. Julian would likely be 1st arm called up if an injury in the rotation during the 1st half of the season. Ryan Merritt (the normal call the past 2 years) is now out of options. He is most likely bullpen bound (if not moved in a trade). Mike Clevinger (the other call up guy) is likely taking the rotation spot of Salazar. It is the past success of/ presence of Clevinger that is enabling the Indians to consider moving Salazar. Cody Anderson had TJ surgery in March 17 so he might be available for a call come the mid-point of the season. Other arms might also be ready come mid-season.

Greg Allen is most likely starting the year in AAA Columbus. He completely jumped that level last season as rosters expanded. He needs a little finishing off especially since he missed 2 months last season in AA due to injury.

You bring up a good point about questioning room form DSantana in the current OF. Unless a guy like Chisenhall is moved this off-season, there isn't room until 2019. So Domingo might not be the package target. As someone noted earlier, the bullpen is thin so the Indians might be after bullpen arms or players to help starting in 2019 (an effort to reload, not rebuild)..


Yeah, this doesn't surprise me. I figured Merryweather may be the next guy in line. Looking over Cleveland's 10thish prospects none of the other players excite me much.

And I can certainly see why Cleveland doesn't do it anyway.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#22

Posted: January 09, 2018, 9:46 AM Post
Posts: 2256
Location: New Berlin, WI
MadThinker88 said:
cubsdie said:
Yeah, I'd be happy with Joseph's trade. I would also substitute Julian Merryweather for Allen though.

Not sure if that deal would fly for Cleveland. There doesn't seem to be room for Santana there. Brantley/Zimmer/Chisenhall/Allen seems OK.


It wouldn't fly for Cleveland.

IF Salazar is getting dealt, then Julian goes no where. Here is why: The starting depth (beyond the guys in Cleveland) is thin at the start of the year. Julian would likely be 1st arm called up if an injury in the rotation during the 1st half of the season. Ryan Merritt (the normal call the past 2 years) is now out of options. He is most likely bullpen bound (if not moved in a trade). Mike Clevinger (the other call up guy) is likely taking the rotation spot of Salazar. It is the past success of/ presence of Clevinger that is enabling the Indians to consider moving Salazar. Cody Anderson had TJ surgery in March 17 so he might be available for a call come the mid-point of the season. Other arms might also be ready come mid-season.

Greg Allen is most likely starting the year in AAA Columbus. He completely jumped that level last season as rosters expanded. He needs a little finishing off especially since he missed 2 months last season in AA due to injury.

You bring up a good point about questioning room form DSantana in the current OF. Unless a guy like Chisenhall is moved this off-season, there isn't room until 2019. So Domingo might not be the package target. As someone noted earlier, the bullpen is thin so the Indians might be after bullpen arms or players to help starting in 2019 (an effort to reload, not rebuild)..


For starters with Santana, he's a better hitter than all 3 of Cleveland's current outfielders. Also, a reminder that Cleveland will have an all LH hitting outfield that consists of a rookie that struggled last year and 2 guys with injury history, one with significant injury history. Having 4 good guys means one can get hurt and they won't skip a beat. If by some miracle all stay healthy all season, they all could play 120 games and potentially PH late in games. I know PH isn't as common in AL, but it still happens especially in platoon situations. Maybe Cleveland isn't interested in Santana, but dismissing it with the "well they have 3 decent outfielders, so they probably won't have interest in Santana" is a bit silly.

If Cleveland has a depth issue at starting pitcher, could they be interested in a Wilkerson or Guerra as part of a deal? I could especially see Wilkerson as he has options. Obviously that isn't a ton of value, but it would likely be a good way to get some additional value in a deal. Also would clear a 40 man spot. Wilkerson might be of value regardless of whether we want Julian included in a deal.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#23

Posted: January 09, 2018, 10:12 AM Post
Posts: 869
Location: Ohio
Keith - It wasn't a dismissal of DSantana. It was the acknowledgement that DSantana might not be the trade target for Cleveland.

As for depth starter in Cleveland, the Indians might not be looking at that EVEN IF Salazar is moved. No Salazar deal and Clevinger might well start the year in AAA (he still has an option remaining). Even with a Salazar move, they may feel they are ok depth wise since Merritt is still around (all be it in the bullpen as a 3rd lefty/ long man) & they have others in AAA (Merryweather/ Morimando/ Plutko (off season surgery)/ Anderson (coming back from TJ).


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#24

Posted: January 09, 2018, 10:25 AM Post
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Santana definitely should be a target for Cleveland, though I guess one could argue that they can get a much cheaper RH bat.

If there's a lefty on the mound, Zimmer and Alonso should not start. Chisenhall has developed more even splits in recent years and Brantley is a guy that can hit lefties. Encarnacion 1B, Santana DH (or corner OF).

With a righty on the mound, they can give any of the OF a day off or Alonso a day off at 1B and put Encarnacion in there. They've got Guyer as a RH only corner bat, but Santana would fit in pretty well.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#25

Posted: January 09, 2018, 10:39 AM Post
Posts: 975
Location: Madison, WI
I would agree that a centerfielder would make much more sense for the Indians. Brantley got 0 at-bats as a centerfielder last year so I'd guess they just don't want to play him there anymore. As already noted Chisenhall can play there but I doubt the Indians would want him to start 100 games there in case something happened with Zimmer. Zimmer is a long-term, building block type player for them but he only slashed .241/.307/.385/.692 last season so that's probably where they need insurance. Not sure if they would view Tyler Naquin or Greg Allen as the centerfield insurance piece? If it's Allen then he'd probably have to be subtracted from the trade and a different top 10 organizational prospect included.

But I do think the Indians could use another outfielder. Over the last three years Chisenhall averaged 105 games played and Brantley only averaged 79. Braun is the model of durability when compared to these two players. Even if those games played for Chisenhall and Brantley are all starts and not bench appearances, it still leaves 140 games open for a different player to start. Even though Chisenhall and Brantley are both good players, I almost have to think their corner outfield situation is rather poor considering the injury factor.

Without this trade the Indians outfield is probably Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Naquin and Zimmer. Naquin has two options left so with Santana it looks like Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Santana and Zimmer. I could see the Indians doing this, especially if they are looking to move Salazar.

The other thing is that Brantley and Chisenhall are both free agents after this year so having Santana under control for four seasons would be make him a logical fit for them. But again, for 2019 they may be looking at Allen, Guyer (2019 option year), Naquin, Santana, Zimmer as their outfielders so Allen may have to be subtracted out of a possible trade.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#26

Posted: January 09, 2018, 11:46 AM Post
Posts: 2410
JosephC said:
I would agree that a centerfielder would make much more sense for the Indians. Brantley got 0 at-bats as a centerfielder last year so I'd guess they just don't want to play him there anymore. As already noted Chisenhall can play there but I doubt the Indians would want him to start 100 games there in case something happened with Zimmer. Zimmer is a long-term, building block type player for them but he only slashed .241/.307/.385/.692 last season so that's probably where they need insurance. Not sure if they would view Tyler Naquin or Greg Allen as the centerfield insurance piece? If it's Allen then he'd probably have to be subtracted from the trade and a different top 10 organizational prospect included.

But I do think the Indians could use another outfielder. Over the last three years Chisenhall averaged 105 games played and Brantley only averaged 79. Braun is the model of durability when compared to these two players. Even if those games played for Chisenhall and Brantley are all starts and not bench appearances, it still leaves 140 games open for a different player to start. Even though Chisenhall and Brantley are both good players, I almost have to think their corner outfield situation is rather poor considering the injury factor.

Without this trade the Indians outfield is probably Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Naquin and Zimmer. Naquin has two options left so with Santana it looks like Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Santana and Zimmer. I could see the Indians doing this, especially if they are looking to move Salazar.

The other thing is that Brantley and Chisenhall are both free agents after this year so having Santana under control for four seasons would be make him a logical fit for them. But again, for 2019 they may be looking at Allen, Guyer (2019 option year), Naquin, Santana, Zimmer as their outfielders so Allen may have to be subtracted out of a possible trade.


You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#27

Posted: January 09, 2018, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 2256
Location: New Berlin, WI
Boomer5 said:
You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.


This is part of why I suggested targeting Salazar + Mejia and sending Santana+. We are incredibly deep in those mid-tier prospects...not blue chippers but significantly more valuable than the "meh" group. Santana + Gatewood + Henry for Salazar + Mejia? Something like that, maybe it takes more I have a tough time gauging Mejia's value.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#28

Posted: January 09, 2018, 12:35 PM Post
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Location: California
Boomer5 said:
You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

This may be why a deal doesn't come together...or why a deal may just be a straight up Santana for Salazar, which I would not like.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#29

Posted: January 09, 2018, 3:49 PM Post
Posts: 369
OK - let me take a shot here:

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#30

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:04 PM Post
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madtownhawk said:
OK - let me take a shot here:

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?


Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#31

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:08 PM Post
Posts: 375
There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#32

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:12 PM Post
Posts: 2256
Location: New Berlin, WI
bill hAll Star said:
madtownhawk said:
OK - let me take a shot here:

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?


Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.


I think the drop from Santana to Salazar is more sizeable than you think due to injury issues. Santana had injury issues in 2016, aside from that he's been mostly healthy. Salazar is a pitcher that has had issues on pretty much every square inch of his arm.

I don't know that the Indians would want 2 outfielders to be added to the MLB roster. Maybe Santana + Ray + either a low level flier or a high floor depth arm. Ponce/Henry/Wilkerson/Stokes...someone in that caliber give or take. Ray isn't top 100 anymore, but he has the tools to bounce back into the spotlight similar to Harrison this year if he can sort out his swing mechanics. A healthy offseason the doesn't include knee surgery should help.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#33

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:22 PM Post
Posts: 369
bill hAll Star said:
madtownhawk said:
OK - let me take a shot here:

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?


Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.


I figured that it probably wasn't enough once I threw in Mejia. I know he's highly thought of, but I was hoping that with the Tribe having Yan Gomes signed up for awhile still that they might be more willing to part with Mejia - especially knowing that they'd have Santana locked up cheap for awhile along with another OF prospect with potential.

If they don't need two OF's, how about a Santana/Ortiz/Herrera package for Salazar/Mejia? I know Ortiz's value might be dropping just a bit, but I think he's still seen as a high upside type arm (with some weight concerns), and Herrera is more of a lottery ticket arm. Or, we could swap in someone like Ponce or Pennington if Herrera isn't what they are looking for.

I just think it would be great to get a franchise catcher like Mejia in this deal, but I also understand if the Tribe feels like they could get much more for him if dealt on his own.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#34

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:37 PM Post
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Devinep said:
There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in


Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#35

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:45 PM Post
Posts: 375
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Devinep said:
There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in


Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?

Less than a year ago they had an everyday 1B. Now they have a LHB platoon bat there.

Plus Aguilar established MLB ability last year


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#36

Posted: January 09, 2018, 4:59 PM Post
Posts: 2256
Location: New Berlin, WI
Devinep said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Devinep said:
There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in


Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?

Less than a year ago they had an everyday 1B. Now they have a LHB platoon bat there.

Plus Aguilar established MLB ability last year


That might have been more reasonable before they got Encarnacion, but he can easily fill in at 1b.

I didn't realize until I just looked now, but holy mackeral is this team left handed. They project most days to start 5 LH, 2 switch, 2 RH. Sure Guyer will see the field a decent amount against lefties and both switch hitters are better RH than LH, but this is a team built to get seriously exposed against LH pitching.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#37

Posted: January 09, 2018, 5:22 PM Post
Posts: 375
That lefty-heavy lineup is why Aguilar may have some appeal. I get Edwin moving to 1B vs LHB but there isn’t a great option at DH then.

Apparently with picking up Brantley’s option and signing Alonzo, they like their lineup that way though


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#38

Posted: January 09, 2018, 5:37 PM Post
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Right-handed bats are a dime a dozen. If they’d deal for Aguilar it would be for peanuts. If not, they could cycle in a myriad of AAAA guys that one of which would eventually OPS .800+ against lefties.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#39

Posted: January 09, 2018, 5:41 PM Post
Posts: 2410
KeithStone53151 said:
Boomer5 said:
You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.


This is part of why I suggested targeting Salazar + Mejia and sending Santana+. We are incredibly deep in those mid-tier prospects...not blue chippers but significantly more valuable than the "meh" group. Santana + Gatewood + Henry for Salazar + Mejia? Something like that, maybe it takes more I have a tough time gauging Mejia's value.


Probably a Santana plus volume type trade to get one of their starters plus a top 30 catcher like you mentioned. It really depends on what they really think of Mejia being an elite catcher and what they truly think of our guys not named Brinson.


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Offline  Re: Danny Salazar
#40

Posted: January 09, 2018, 5:44 PM Post
Posts: 2410
Devinep said:
There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in


Aguilar is barely a throw in and with apologies to the Nottingham fans here, his is just a guy who is a barely adequate catcher who hit 209 at AA.

Mejia would require a top 50 guy added to a Santana package.


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