LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next  [ 213 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Manny Machado

Author Message
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 8:05 AM Post
User avatar

Brewerfan Jedi
Global Moderator
Posts: 20010
3and2Fastball said:
I think if you can get an agreement with Machado on a long term contract as a condition of the trade, you pull the trigger and give up Arcia plus pitching...

I agree with everything you said about Machado, but there is no way the Brewers can afford him long-term, and I think also zero chance he doesn't go to the FA market to drive up his price tag.

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 8:50 AM Post
Posts: 402
trwi7 said:
It would be absolutely insane to trade top prospects for Machado.


It really wouldn't......IF YOU THINK HE IS THE MISSING PIECE.

But we still need more than just him.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 9:11 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 17479
mlloyd10 said:
trwi7 said:
It would be absolutely insane to trade top prospects for Machado.


It really wouldn't......IF YOU THINK HE IS THE MISSING PIECE.

But we still need more than just him.


There is no such thing as a "missing piece." We could trade for Kershaw, Machado and Harper and there's still a good chance we wouldn't win the World Series.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 9:57 AM Post
Posts: 402
trwi7 said:
mlloyd10 said:
trwi7 said:
It would be absolutely insane to trade top prospects for Machado.


It really wouldn't......IF YOU THINK HE IS THE MISSING PIECE.

But we still need more than just him.


There is no such thing as a "missing piece." We could trade for Kershaw, Machado and Harper and there's still a good chance we wouldn't win the World Series.


Then why even try then


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:09 AM Post
Posts: 3353
You give Machado his full asking price right now (I'm guessing 7 years $210 Million) and he'll sign. Why risk injury in the 2nd Half which could effect his bargaining power when he can get the full contract right now?

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:19 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8931
I think you'd have to be at the 10-year mark to make him even think about it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:25 AM Post
User avatar

Brewerfan Jedi
Global Moderator
Posts: 20010
Brew4U said:
I think you'd have to be at the 10-year mark to make him even think about it.

It's crazy to think that this was so long ago now, but A-Rod's 10 yr/$250M contract was signed in 2000! Machado doesn't have the pedigree A-Rod did at that point, but a 10-yr contract you have to assume will be over $300M. That is insane money.

If you grade A-Rod's deal on a curve, I wonder what its dollar amount would equate to in 2018. $400M? There just weren't contracts like his before he signed that one.

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:26 AM Post
Posts: 2348
Location: Madison, WI
But we still need more than just him.[/quote]

There is no such thing as a "missing piece." We could trade for Kershaw, Machado and Harper and there's still a good chance we wouldn't win the World Series.[/quote]

Then why even try then[/quote]



He's just saying it's the nature and fluctuation of baseball. As in, even the clearly superior team still only win like 60% of the games. It's not like NBA where if you have an overwhelming team you're almost unbeatable. So it's tough to call any one player a missing piece because it's just not possible in baseball.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:30 AM Post
Posts: 2348
Location: Madison, WI
Don't get me wrong here, not trying to say Machado isn't a great player and that I'd love to have him. Plus being only 25 and all there's room for more.

But prior to this year he's never been a ridiculous hitter, maybe this is the new norm for him, who knows. But look at his numbers prior and he's not absurd. Of course, still very good and power has shown up the last few years. But his career obp is .333. Last year he was 259/310.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:32 AM Post
Posts: 402
tmwiese55 said:
But we still need more than just him.


There is no such thing as a "missing piece." We could trade for Kershaw, Machado and Harper and there's still a good chance we wouldn't win the World Series.[/quote]

Then why even try then[/quote]



He's just saying it's the nature and fluctuation of baseball. As in, even the clearly superior team still only win like 60% of the games. It's not like NBA where if you have an overwhelming team you're almost unbeatable. So it's tough to call any one player a missing piece because it's just not possible in baseball.[/quote]

I get what he is saying...he is just always negative

Machado doesn't guarantee get you a WS title, but he does guarantee you a Playoff spot


Last edited by mlloyd10 on May 30, 2018, 11:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 379
Brew4U said:
I think you'd have to be at the 10-year mark to make him even think about it.


Agreed on this, I think the only way to get him to sign now and not go to to free agency would be 10 years $400M. He'll still only be 35 in the last year of that contract, unlike some of these other horrible contracts like Pujols and Votto where they'll be 40 at the end of their deals.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:14 PM Post
Posts: 12575
3and2Fastball said:
You give Machado his full asking price right now (I'm guessing 7 years $210 Million) and he'll sign. Why risk injury in the 2nd Half which could effect his bargaining power when he can get the full contract right now?


You'd have to blow away the high end of what Machado thinks he can get in free agency to get him to agree to commit the next decade of his life to Milwaukee before he's spent one day with the team. 7/210 doesn't come close to that. That's probably on the very low end if he ends up with a very disappointing free agency, but no way he takes that right now.

You'd probably be talking more like 10/400 to keep him off the market, and even then only if he actually wants to be here.

Reality is unfortunately we just can't afford that kind of contract.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:25 PM Post
Posts: 3353
I don't know. Big contracts are risky in general. This is not a good time to be a player getting long term contracts, especially for position players.

With Harper, likely Kershaw, and a bunch of other top players coming on the market, the chances of Machado getting

A) a 7 year contract
B) a guarantee to stick at SS
C) on a team likely to contend

Are not as vast & wide as you might think. I really think the Brewers might have a shot. Especially if they get creative and maybe front load the contract with a player opt out after 4 years (so Machado could re-enter the free agent market after his age 30 season if he wants)

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:25 PM Post
Posts: 3353
I don't know. Big contracts are risky in general. This is not a good time to be a player getting long term contracts, especially for position players.

With Harper, likely Kershaw, and a bunch of other top players coming on the market, the chances of Machado getting

A) a 7 year contract
B) a guarantee to stick at SS
C) on a team likely to contend

Are not as vast & wide as you might think. I really think the Brewers might have a shot. Especially if they get creative and maybe front load the contract with a player opt out after 4 years (so Machado could re-enter the free agent market after his age 30 season if he wants)

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:37 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1892
mlloyd10 said:
trwi7 said:
mlloyd10 said:
It really wouldn't......IF YOU THINK HE IS THE MISSING PIECE.

But we still need more than just him.


There is no such thing as a "missing piece." We could trade for Kershaw, Machado and Harper and there's still a good chance we wouldn't win the World Series.


Then why even try then


The Brewers currently are trying. Their GM is very shrewd and won't make a deal unless it seems to be very much in his favor. It may be more of an extended window with many playoff opportunities.

Now, at a certain point you may just have to go for it, but I'm not sure we're there yet.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:39 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1892
I was trying to craft a Machado contract for fun and the issue is in the short-term.

If one wants to basically hitch their wagon to Machado for the next decade, in theory, it could be swung. It's probably stupid but it would not be insanely shocking.

I even think that if he was willing to go to $130 million team salary for 2-3 years and backload the contract it could be done.

The problem is that Machado will likely want an opt out after 2 or 3 years with some huge $ in years 1 and 2. Unless Mark wants to go to $150 million for his team salary, I don't see that happening.


Last edited by bill hAll Star on May 30, 2018, 2:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 1:51 PM Post
Posts: 3353
bill hAll Star said:
I was trying to craft a Machado contract for fun and the issue is in the short-term.

If one wants to basically hitch their wagon to Machado for the next decade, in theory, it could be swung. It's probably stupid but it would not be insanely shocking.

I even think that if he was willing to go to $130 million team salary for 2-3 years and backload the contract it could be done.

The problem is that Machado will likely want an opt out after 2 or 3 years with some huge $ in years 1 and 2. Unless Mark wants to go to $150 million, I don't see that happening.


7 years $210-$230 million, front loaded with $120 million over the first 3 years, opt out after 4 years. It can be done.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 2:09 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1892
3and2Fastball said:
bill hAll Star said:
I was trying to craft a Machado contract for fun and the issue is in the short-term.

If one wants to basically hitch their wagon to Machado for the next decade, in theory, it could be swung. It's probably stupid but it would not be insanely shocking.

I even think that if he was willing to go to $130 million team salary for 2-3 years and backload the contract it could be done.

The problem is that Machado will likely want an opt out after 2 or 3 years with some huge $ in years 1 and 2. Unless Mark wants to go to $150 million, I don't see that happening.


7 years $210-$230 million, front loaded with $120 million over the first 3 years, opt out after 4 years. It can be done.


1. I don't think that's enough for his contract. He can do better.

2. If it is and you frontload $40 million/year for the first 3 years, that means that the Brewers' payroll is going to likely be $150 million in 2019 and probably 2020 unless they do some drastic payroll slashing elsewhere. I doubt we see that. I know someone will bring up that they will "pay it forward" with their savings from 2016 and 2017, but not that much.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 2:48 PM Post
Posts: 3353
Oh, Mark needs to just win a World Series or two and get over himself. As if the franchise can't withstand a deficit for a season or three and then renegotiate the TV contract and raise ticket prices a little when the Brewers are World Champs. Mark's already quadrupled his initial investment. The value of the Brewers has increased $750 million. If he can't figure out a way to do this he's either an idiot of playing the fans like chumps all the way to the bank.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Machado
Posted: May 30, 2018, 3:08 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2066
3and2Fastball said:
Oh, Mark needs to just win a World Series or two and get over himself. As if the franchise can't withstand a deficit for a season or three and then renegotiate the TV contract and raise ticket prices a little when the Brewers are World Champs. Mark's already quadrupled his initial investment. The value of the Brewers has increased $750 million. If he can't figure out a way to do this he's either an idiot of playing the fans like chumps all the way to the bank.


I think we need to remember that the end goal of player acquisition and building the minor league system is to win a World Series. Literally nothing else is as important than that. I'd take a Series win over 5 straight division championships with NLCS bow outs any day of the week.

Edit: I'm agreeing with you 3and2Fastball, if that was unclear.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next  [ 213 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test