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James Shields

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Offline  Re: James Shields
#21

Posted: June 04, 2018, 10:21 PM Post
Posts: 1783
Brew4U said:
superfly said:
Brew4U said:
Shields likes to pitch deeper into games. He may not want to come to Milwaukee knowing our new philosophy.

But he was very impressive yesterday.



Philosophy? I think it's more that our starters can't make it deep into games, not that we don't want them to. Who wouldn't want a guy cruising through 7 innings per start, 1 inning of Hader, 1 Knebel?


If you don’t think it’s part of their new philosophy, you haven’t been watching much. There have been plenty of opportunities to have our starter go farther in games and we don’t do it. Like Counsell has even said, they go into the game with an idea of how many outs they want to get out of a pitcher. We have seen our games get through 6ip and be at 80 pitches and still come out.


For some reason i'm having trouble envisioning a Corey Kluber, Luis Severino, Aaron Nola, Michael Wacha, etc type of pitcher being pulled at/before 80 pitches for us.

In my opinion they're molding to what we have, not molding the pitching. Brent Suter cannot go more than 5 innings, Chacin is the 6ish type. Guerra again, 5-6ish innings. Anderson is the only guy we have that can realistically go deep when he's on. Nelson can (and will) go deep when healthy. If they are doing it how you say they are then Shields is going to be RIGHT in their wheelhouse and a likely trade target.


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Offline  Re: James Shields
#22

Posted: June 04, 2018, 11:27 PM Post
Posts: 17
reillymcshane said:
I certainly wouldn't take him without the Sox covering a boatload of his salary. He's the kind of guy you might pick up at the trade deadline for nothing if you have some back of the rotation concerns. But nothing more.


adambr2 said:

Because he's been quite bad since 2015 and would cost us millions.


No. READ the original post again. I'm asking about a specific offer, whether or not you guys would accept that deal or not. Not "Hey, what do you think of James Shields?".

All money covered, Lemons as the return.


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Offline  Re: James Shields
#23

Posted: June 05, 2018, 5:51 AM Post
Posts: 14631
JoeCoolMan24 said:
reillymcshane said:
I certainly wouldn't take him without the Sox covering a boatload of his salary. He's the kind of guy you might pick up at the trade deadline for nothing if you have some back of the rotation concerns. But nothing more.


adambr2 said:

Because he's been quite bad since 2015 and would cost us millions.


No. READ the original post again. I'm asking about a specific offer, whether or not you guys would accept that deal or not. Not "Hey, what do you think of James Shields?".

All money covered, Lemons as the return.


Okay. No.


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Offline  Re: James Shields
#24

Posted: June 05, 2018, 8:51 AM Post
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Posts: 6502
adambr2 said:
JoeCoolMan24 said:
reillymcshane said:
I certainly wouldn't take him without the Sox covering a boatload of his salary. He's the kind of guy you might pick up at the trade deadline for nothing if you have some back of the rotation concerns. But nothing more.


adambr2 said:

Because he's been quite bad since 2015 and would cost us millions.


No. READ the original post again. I'm asking about a specific offer, whether or not you guys would accept that deal or not. Not "Hey, what do you think of James Shields?".

All money covered, Lemons as the return.


Okay. No.

Agree. No.


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Offline  Re: James Shields
#25

Posted: June 05, 2018, 9:45 AM Post
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Posts: 2256
superfly said:
For some reason i'm having trouble envisioning a Corey Kluber, Luis Severino, Aaron Nola, Michael Wacha, etc type of pitcher being pulled at/before 80 pitches for us.

In my opinion they're molding to what we have, not molding the pitching. Brent Suter cannot go more than 5 innings, Chacin is the 6ish type. Guerra again, 5-6ish innings. Anderson is the only guy we have that can realistically go deep when he's on. Nelson can (and will) go deep when healthy. If they are doing it how you say they are then Shields is going to be RIGHT in their wheelhouse and a likely trade target.


But Shields goes deeper into games generally because the White Sox are tanking and don't care much and have not completely enacted the Brewers' stragety (partially due to not having as dominant of a bullpen). He's not a bad option to leave in there for the 6th/7th, but given our bullpen options, he's an inferior choice.

Now, Shields is pitching fairly well currently when he makes it to the 6th/7th, but that is beside the point.

We have a loaded/deep bullpen. If the game is close, we are tied or ahead, and Shields puts a man on base in the 6th with the meat of the opponent order up...which do you prefer? Unhittable Josh Hader to put the fire out, followed by Jeffress, followed by Albers or Knebel? Or do you want to see if you can get 15-20 more pitches out of 4.50 xFIP/ERA James Shields and then turn to the bullpen?

Severino, Kluber, etc. do not get pulled at 80 pitches because leaving them in is essentially as good as bringing in Josh Hader.

There does reach a point where we may need to have starters that can go deeper to maintain the bullpen throughout the year but I do not think that is an issue for our team this year. We are likely going to make it to September with a fresh enough bullpen because it is so deep.

Maybe this is what you meant and I'm misunderstanding. If so, apologies.


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Offline  Re: James Shields
#26

Posted: June 07, 2018, 12:20 PM Post
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Posts: 2256
A crisp 7 ER and counting for Shields today.


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