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Syndergaard and deGrom

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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#41

Posted: June 09, 2018, 10:46 AM Post
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Does this team win a WS with Syndergaard or deGroom? Not sure on that either.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#42

Posted: June 09, 2018, 11:02 AM Post
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paul253 said:
Save the top prospects and go get a rental bat for cheap.


The problem is this team isn’t a cheap rental bat away from being a legitimate World Seties contender. I just shutter to think of going into the playoffs with Chacin as our best starting pitcher.

As far as the insistence Hader has to be included I don’t see it. Hader is not a young prospect anymore. He’s a very important piece to the current team. Why would the Mets expect us to give up possibly our most valuable pitcher when we are clearly in win now mode? We have plenty of good, major league or near major league prospects to offer. Whether or not they are good enough is the question.


You're never one piece away. It's fools gold to ever think that one piece ever does anything more than increase your chances. So you have to weigh the cost benefit of everything you do. I do like the idea of getting a cheap rental bat that could significantly help our offense down the stretch. Depends on cost. I don't think there is probably a JD Martinez type value out there this year. Machado will cost way more.

Ideally, Nelson will be our best SP in the playoffs. If not, it doesn't mean we don't have a chance. Its tougher, but you can win the WS off the backs of a strong offense and elite pen.

As far as Hader not being a young prospect and a very important piece for us now, the Mets could not possibly care less about that. They will want to maximize their return if they ever trade Syndergaard or DeGrom, and the only way we could compete with teams that can offer top 5 of all MLB prospect headliners is to include Hader.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#43

Posted: June 09, 2018, 12:09 PM Post
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I don't even think us putting in Hader pushes us past other teams. He's a great reliever but if the Mets are trading Syndergaard and/or deGrom, it means they're rebuilding and that's just about the last piece they're looking for as the headliner for the return.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#44

Posted: June 09, 2018, 12:15 PM Post
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You're never one piece away


I never said were one piece away. But the starting pitching is more a need than a “cheap rental bat”. I’m not sure what type of player or even what position is being considered for that type of acquisition but we’ll have to give up something to get that as well.

ideally, Nelson will be our best SP in the playoffs. If not, it doesn't mean we don't have a chance. Its tougher, but you can win the WS off the backs of a strong offense and elite pen


Neither Syndergaard nor Degrom would be half season rentals. So even if Nelson comes back to be our best pitcher, which is a huge if, we still have I believe three seasons with Degrom and four with Syndergaard to continue winning. I’d rather go into the playoffs with a legitimate #1 type pitcher who can pitch two or three times over a seven game series than to hope we outslug everyone else.

.As far as Hader not being a young prospect and a very important piece for us now, the Mets could not possibly care less about that. They will want to maximize their return if they ever trade Syndergaard or DeGrom, and the only way we could compete with teams that can offer top 5 of all MLB prospect headliners is to include Hader


You miss my point. I understand the Mets want to maximize their value. But common sense would dictate that teams trading with them for one of their aces are intent on winning now and would therefore not be interested in giving back players that are contributing significantly right now. It’s the same reason why the Mets wouldn’t expect to get Shaw or Yelich or Cain back in a trade.

Also, who is to say that teams with top five in all of baseball prospects are even interested in giving up those players? If the Mets offered up their guts right now I’d bet half the teams in Major League Baseball wouldn’t even be interested. So we’re not competing with teams who have top five prospects. We’re competing with teams who are interested. And yeah we may not have the ammo to get it done. But that doesn’t mean we’d trade someone like Hader instead. It doesn’t make any sense and I think the Mets know that.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#45

Posted: June 09, 2018, 1:01 PM Post
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The Brewers could offer up a headline duo of Hiura & Burnes. Who ranked 24 & 35 on the FanGraphs preseason list, both with a future value of 55, then fill out their package with a variety of interesting guys.

Of teams currently in contention you've got BOS, SF, ARI, SEA & CHI who probably can't beat our offer.

HOU, CLE, ATL, PHI, STL & WAS could all probably match or beat our offer but appear to have bigger needs than SP or also play in the NL East with NYM which sometimes complicates big deals.

That leaves NYY, LAD, LAA & COL as teams who prolly could match/beat our offer with a need for SP.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#46

Posted: June 09, 2018, 2:42 PM Post
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on MLB last night the talk was about the Yanks going after DeGroom


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#47

Posted: June 09, 2018, 2:59 PM Post
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I’d pay up for Syndegaard, but Hader would be off the table.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#48

Posted: June 09, 2018, 3:09 PM Post
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Off the major league team, I'd trade Davies, Suter, Santana, Arcia if the Mets gave them any value. I'd assume they would like a young guy like Williams.

Assuming they don't want any, I'd be okay letting them pick any four minor leaguers they wanted. Even if they wanted all of Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#49

Posted: June 10, 2018, 10:07 PM Post
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Everyone in the Brewers organization is on the table except Josh Hader for me. As many as they want for Thor, he is a face of a franchise that would not only give us a top 5 pitcher in baseball but increase interest in the team nationwide ala Giannis/Bucks...which opens the possibilities of higher payrolls and revenues. It's a risk worth taking.

Arcia, Hiura, Peralta, Burnes, and whatever else they want. None of them have a ceiling of Syndergaard. Only thing that gives me hesitation on deGrom is he's almost 30.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#50

Posted: June 10, 2018, 11:12 PM Post
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I think I'd prefer deGrom to Thor myself.

Given Thor is younger, cheaper, has one more year of team control & has the higher upside he should likely command the higher return of the two.

The only things deGrom has the edge in are actual performance & health. But if he can be obtained for less since he costs more, has one less year of team control & is older then sign me up.

Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#51

Posted: June 11, 2018, 6:55 AM Post
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The only things deGrom has the edge in are actual performance & health.

Which is why I'd be very hesitant giving up a ton of value for Thor, despite his upside. Pitchers like him with a list of minor injuries tend to find a way to suffer a significant arm injury that leads to 1+ lost seasons, which would be crippling to a brewer team looking to rely on him before he gets too expensive and likely becomes a trade chip they would need to deal themselves.

And I would say that degrom is the better pitcher and would provide the most value based on the facts that he apears to be less of an injury risk and stats say he is better at pitching.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#52

Posted: June 11, 2018, 11:37 AM Post
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brewmann04 said:
on MLB last night the talk was about the Yanks going after DeGroom


Of course they did - the networks play to the most tv sets, which begins with NY, as the largest media market. Beyond that, it absolutely makes sense for the two NY teams to try to work out a deal in this case - the Yankees need help in the rotation, and the Mets need to match up with a team that has a deep farm system.

The Brewers could land deGrom, there's enough in the farm system to do that, but if they do, it will be a major change of course for Mr Stearns, because this one would leave them with a hole in the organizational depth he has talked about since the day he was hired.

I think the Brewers should pursue the Mets' pitchers, if they are made available, I think there's a rare time and place to make a move like that, and the Brewers have gotten into that window. Having said that, I expect a much lower profile trade for a pitcher, in the same mold as the Chacin signing that took place while the media insisted we were players for Darvish, Arrieta, etc.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#53

Posted: June 13, 2018, 8:24 AM Post
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Hiura / Burnes / Diplan / Ray for Degrom

Hader / Burnes / Hiura / Lutz for Noah


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#54

Posted: June 13, 2018, 8:41 AM Post
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mlloyd10 said:
Hiura / Burnes / Diplan / Ray for Degrom

Hader / Burnes / Hiura / Lutz for Noah


My concern here is this:

Hader is probably almost as valuable as Thor in the majors right now and very well could be just as good if transitioned to a starter. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul on the MLB roster, maybe missing the playoffs, and basically giving up 3 good prospects to probably not upgrade a ton.

I'm not sure that's enough for deGrom. If it is, I guess you maybe do that trade.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#55

Posted: June 13, 2018, 11:43 AM Post
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ZERO chance the Brewers would move Hader to any team at this point. The guy has probably been the most valuable reliever in all of baseball so far this year, and a huge weapon for this team moving forward. No way they trade him, even for a guy like Thor.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#56

Posted: June 13, 2018, 11:46 AM Post
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madtownhawk said:
ZERO chance the Brewers would move Hader to any team at this point. The guy has probably been the most valuable reliever in all of baseball so far this year, and a huge weapon for this team moving forward. No way they trade him, even for a guy like Thor.

While I understand your point, if the hypothetical deal was Thor for Hader straight up I think the Brewers would strongly consider that.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#57

Posted: June 13, 2018, 11:46 AM Post
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Thor's out for a while as well, FWIW. Could be one of those things that lingers all year.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#58

Posted: June 13, 2018, 12:21 PM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
Thor's out for a while as well, FWIW. Could be one of those things that lingers all year.


I'm much more inclined to target Degrom, in part due to acquisition cost. Let's all keep in mind we are probably paying close to $30 million for 2+ years of Degrom should we target him, though we could always trade him or take the comp pick when the time comes. We'd also be getting age 30-32 seasons. All are simply considerations.

I would try to send Burnes and/or Peralta as the centerpiece in a trade for Degrom if we go that route. I suspect they'd demand Hiura, but that guy is so stinking good I'd try really hard to keep him. Burnes or Peralta, Ray, Supak, and a flier or 2 for Degrom, I feel like that's reasonably close.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#59

Posted: June 13, 2018, 12:27 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
bill hAll Star said:
Thor's out for a while as well, FWIW. Could be one of those things that lingers all year.


I'm much more inclined to target Degrom, in part due to acquisition cost. Let's all keep in mind we are probably paying close to $30 million for 2+ years of Degrom should we target him, though we could always trade him or take the comp pick when the time comes. We'd also be getting age 30-32 seasons. All are simply considerations.

I would try to send Burnes and/or Peralta as the centerpiece in a trade for Degrom if we go that route. I suspect they'd demand Hiura, but that guy is so stinking good I'd try really hard to keep him. Burnes or Peralta, Ray, Supak, and a flier or 2 for Degrom, I feel like that's reasonably close.


Somebody else can probably trump that offer. I know that Ray is turning it around but he still has a ceiling of Brett Gardner maybe with a tad more power. That's a nice piece, but the Mets are gonna want more unless they really covet Burnes.

Of course the Mets keep moving closer and closer to the rental phase for deGrom so if the league keeps lowballing, they may be forced to take something like this. But I think one of these AL teams in tight races may be desperate enough to put 2 top 100 prospects in there.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
#60

Posted: June 13, 2018, 12:32 PM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
bill hAll Star said:
KeithStone53151 said:
bill hAll Star said:
Thor's out for a while as well, FWIW. Could be one of those things that lingers all year.


I'm much more inclined to target Degrom, in part due to acquisition cost. Let's all keep in mind we are probably paying close to $30 million for 2+ years of Degrom should we target him, though we could always trade him or take the comp pick when the time comes. We'd also be getting age 30-32 seasons. All are simply considerations.

I would try to send Burnes and/or Peralta as the centerpiece in a trade for Degrom if we go that route. I suspect they'd demand Hiura, but that guy is so stinking good I'd try really hard to keep him. Burnes or Peralta, Ray, Supak, and a flier or 2 for Degrom, I feel like that's reasonably close.


Somebody else can probably trump that offer. I know that Ray is turning it around but he still has a ceiling of Brett Gardner maybe with a tad more power. That's a nice piece, but the Mets are gonna want more unless they really covet Burnes.

Of course the Mets keep moving closer and closer to the rental phase for deGrom so if the league keeps lowballing, they may be forced to take something like this. But I think one of these AL teams in tight races may be desperate enough to put 2 top 100 prospects in there.


Right, most teams can beat that offer if seriously inclined. It's not solely about the player though, $30 million for 2+ years is a lot. And age is a consideration. It's still a good value contract but should definitely all be considered. You could always try to include a guy like Phillips or Ortiz instead of the flier. Burnes + Ortiz/Phillips + Ray + Supak. That's probably a bit too much but I doubt any team would offer 4 solid prospects like these for 2+ years of a pitcher at that cost.


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