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Syndergaard and deGrom

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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 22, 2018, 2:02 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.


I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 25, 2018, 4:06 PM Post
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sveumrules said:
sveumrules said:
Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.


I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 25, 2018, 5:26 PM Post
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mattyo said:
Beat me to it. Moncada was a consensus top 3 prospect in baseball, and Kopech was a top 25 guy when they were traded. Hiura and Peralta don't compare.

Is it possible that Moncada was overrated by the ranking services because he signed for so much money? He played one full year in the minors split between two levels, so a somewhat small sample at each level. Just because he's young for his league doesn't mean he's going to get better.

I liken Moncada's half-season in AA in 2016 to Dubon's half-season in AA - in fact, not only were both on the same team, but both posted an almost identical OPS - .910 (Moncada, 207 PAs) to .909 (Dubon, 262 PAs). Dubon is 10 months older, but the point is they produced roughly the same over roughly the same PAs at roughly the same age. Looking deeper at Moncada's numbers that season, he hit 11 HRs but only 6 doubles - how often does a player hit twice as many HRs as doubles? Almost never. Seems unlikely to sustain.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 25, 2018, 5:34 PM Post
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The reason that DeGrom and Syndergaard cost so much to acquire is the reason the Mets are holding on to them - how often do you get that much pitching talent on one team? It rarely happens.

I think it's easier - and a heck of a lot cheaper - to plug the holes with position players and in the bullpen than starting pitching. Sure, there's a chance DeGrom might regress. But there's a chance that the Braves will regress, and the Nationals especially if they lose Harper and Strasburg gets hurt (again).

A healthy Cespedes plus a decent 1B (not hard or expensive to find those) and a decent 3B (Moustakas?) plus a couple of bullpen pieces and they have just as much of a shot as anyone in the NL East.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 28, 2018, 3:58 PM Post
Posts: 330
LouisEly said:

A healthy Cespedes plus a decent 1B (not hard or expensive to find those) and a decent 3B (Moustakas?) plus a couple of bullpen pieces and they have just as much of a shot as anyone in the NL East.

They've been saying this the last 3 years. If the rotation stays healthy, if Cespedes stays healthy, if we do this or that. Since their owners are poors they don't have a real chance of adding anything and they'll just keep lying to themselves that everyone will stay healthy (when they haven't since 2015) and they "have a great shot."


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 29, 2018, 10:13 AM Post
Posts: 1163
Warning Track Power said:
sveumrules said:
sveumrules said:
Mets could get a haul by cashing in when they're both healthy/dealing & take major steps toward rebuilding for the future, but they'll probably hold on to both of them just so they can finish 4th in the division.


I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.


Wait. Isn’t that the team that got screwed in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Mets are a dysfunctional World Series contender?


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: September 29, 2018, 10:17 PM Post
Posts: 252
PlayerHader said:
Warning Track Power said:
sveumrules said:
I'll maintain my pre-trade deadline stance into the offseason.

Mets have had a good second half & have some interesting young pieces, but this year they've gotten 675 innings of 3.00 ERA work from deGrom, Thor, Wheeler & Matz and they're still in 4th place.

I'll take the under on that inning total & the over on that ERA mark for the same quartet next year if the Mets stand pat.

I liken the Mets to the 2001-2002 Bucks. Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, Tim Thomas, Anthony Mason (yes I know)...all the talent in the world yet there is something that doesn't mesh there. Their chemistry is just...off. Maybe it's the hitting but a shakeup of some kind is needed.


Wait. Isn’t that the team that got screwed in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Mets are a dysfunctional World Series contender?


You're thinking about the previous year - in 01-02, the Bucks went 41-41 and missed the playoffs.

"Don't force him to choose between Chris Smalling and Phil Jones. It's like asking someone to choose between which STD to contract!"


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:36 PM Post
Posts: 14081
I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:43 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.


I think it's an enormous leap to assume either was anywhere close to available.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: October 10, 2018, 3:23 PM Post
Posts: 851
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.


I think it's an enormous leap to assume either was anywhere close to available.


Agreed. I think when it came down to it the Mets didn't want to trade any controllable players before getting their front office in place.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: October 11, 2018, 10:05 PM Post
Posts: 22289
MrTPlush said:
I think not trading for one of these guys will really come back to haunt us as a "what if" if we don't win it all. Just a guess.

Easy to say not to trade a big chunk of the farm for one of these guys until we get oh so close and miss out. Going up against some of the rotations we are to see from here on out a guy like one of the Mets aces would have been huge. Can you imagine one of these guys starting three games for us in this series?

I get that neither was assured to pitch great for us (could have been terrible), but it will at least make you wonder if we lose one of the next two series.


It's also easy to say trade a big chunk of the farm when we have no idea how much it would have taken to pry one away from the Mets. If they were really available, why weren't they traded? Surely, even if we weren't willing to trade a big chunk of the farm for Jacob DeGrom, one of the other 28 teams certainly would have.

I'm guessing the Mets never really had an intention of dealing either and the only way they were even listening was if a stupidly good offer came in, like Hiura+Burnes+Hader+Peralta. And if, even IF the Mets took that offer, it would be fair to wonder if we're even in the position we are now.

I think we can definitely assume that if DeGrom or Syndergaard was available for a Yelich or Quintana type package, they wouldn't be Mets.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: October 12, 2018, 5:01 AM Post
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Burnes, Woodruff and Peralta have been huge for us in winning the division and the NLDS. They also set up the future. There’s no what if for me. It’s just pure excitement about where this groups heading.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 21, 2018, 11:34 AM Post
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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 8:43 AM Post
Posts: 1432
Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura? Let’s get this done DS


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 9:41 AM Post
Posts: 1037
KCBrewerfan34 said:
Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura? Let’s get this done DS


I don't see anyway they give him up without getting an elite prospect. A midseason proposal from a Mets writer above was Hiura, Burnes, and Ray, probably still a competitive package since Burnes and Hiura's values have increased like Syndergaard's but I don't know why the Mets would even move him anymore. They can deal Wheeler and sign free agents to fix their issues.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 1:03 PM Post
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KCBrewerfan34 said:
Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?


No.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 1:25 PM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
adambr2 said:
KCBrewerfan34 said:
Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?


No.


I generally disagree, especially considering i think burnes is more valuable than hiura. But realistically one of those 2 is probably a centerpiece.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 2:42 PM Post
Posts: 1432
Woodruff Ray and Stokes doesn’t get it done?


Last edited by KCBrewerfan34 on November 24, 2018, 1:17 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 3:29 PM Post
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KCBrewerfan34 said:
Woodard Ray and Stokes doesn’t get it done?


Close and it would depend on what the Mets think of Woodard and Ray. Probably need a third prospect like Brown if you are not including Hiura or Burnes.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 23, 2018, 6:05 PM Post
Posts: 1037
KeithStone53151 said:
adambr2 said:
KCBrewerfan34 said:
Can we get Syndergaard without giving up Hiura?


No.


I generally disagree, especially considering i think burnes is more valuable than hiura. But realistically one of those 2 is probably a centerpiece.


While I don't disagree with your value argument I don't think the Mets would accept a pitcher at the top of the deal when the whole reason they would be selling is because they are flush with major league starters and pitching prospects. As the second piece sure so maybe Woodruff/Peralta would fit there. But who knows, these deals usually end up being more quantity than just going down prospects #1-2-3 like us and writers propose, maybe we sign Moose or Donaldson and Shaw becomes a big piece in the deal.


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