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Syndergaard and deGrom

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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 7:39 AM Post
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If I’m the Mets, I’m absolutely getting Hiura or Burnes - and if I’m the Brewers, I’m not giving both. Since the idea for Milwaukee is to improve pitching, Hiura is the painful loss.

The Mets say they’re trying to contend, so, perhaps Woodruff goes too, with the Brewers trying to make it Anderson or Davies.

The Brewers can do this if they want to, it’s up to the Mets to sort out what they want. Between young veterans and minor leaguers, the Brewers can build a deal - the question is, will the Mets agree to a group the Brewers are willing to give?


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 7:41 AM Post
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You are not getting Thor without Hiura. Three years of Thor is A LOT of control for an ace level pitcher. His health Is what concerns me. I think it would almost be a no brainer to offer up Hiura for him if health wasn't a factor. 3 years of a proven ace for 6 years of a prospect? That's a pretty good trade off if the other prospects aren't crazy valuable.

With the health concerns I could see someone only wanting to offer Corbin Burnes as the centerpiece...anything lesser and I think you are severely overrating our guys or seriously underrating Thor.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 8:04 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
You are not getting Thor without Hiura. Three years of Thor is A LOT of control for an ace level pitcher. His health Is what concerns me. I think it would almost be a no brainer to offer up Hiura for him if health wasn't a factor. 3 years of a proven ace for 6 years of a prospect? That's a pretty good trade off if the other prospects aren't crazy valuable.

With the health concerns I could see someone only wanting to offer Corbin Burnes as the centerpiece...anything lesser and I think you are severely overrating our guys or seriously underrating Thor.


I think the only way someone like Hiura is expendable in a deal is if they have a plan for 2B for the next several years already in place. That could mean signing someone like Dietrich, LeMahieu or Marwin Gonzalez to a multi-year deal, trading for someone like Segura, or hoping that Dubon takes that next step and can be a serviceable 2B for the next 6 years. If they are truly in a "go for it" mentality for the next three seasons, a move like this wouldn't surprise me. It would obviously be a hit to the minor league system, but I believe they are doing a great job restocking the lower minors with some very high-upside talent, so they wouldn't be down for long.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 8:40 AM Post
Posts: 11475
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
You are not getting Thor without Hiura. Three years of Thor is A LOT of control for an ace level pitcher. His health Is what concerns me. I think it would almost be a no brainer to offer up Hiura for him if health wasn't a factor. 3 years of a proven ace for 6 years of a prospect? That's a pretty good trade off if the other prospects aren't crazy valuable.

With the health concerns I could see someone only wanting to offer Corbin Burnes as the centerpiece...anything lesser and I think you are severely overrating our guys or seriously underrating Thor.


I think the only way someone like Hiura is expendable in a deal is if they have a plan for 2B for the next several years already in place.


Which isn't that hard to do or very expensive. Sure they might not be an impact bat, but it is way easier for us to go out and find offense with money than it is to find a legit ace. I think at face value (in the present) trading Hiura for Thor (or a different ace) is a smart logical move. It could definitely backfire, like anything else, but I do think it could work out really well.

Hiura straight up for Thor is a solid deal. Thor is controllable himself (3 years) and carries a lot less risk. One of the secondary pieces will eventually be replaced via draft pick comp, though there is a downside to recouping that player way far down the road. Then there will likely be another third piece.

I think there is a great opportunity this offseason to get great value when trading for an ace. The market is pretty flooded and if a team is willing to take a reasonable offer it might be wise for us to take advantage much like what we did last offseason with Yelich. I think it is a no brainer to figure out a deal for one of the aces available if it takes players other than Hiura...and even if it takes Hiura (for a controllable one) it might be really wise.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 9:00 AM Post
Posts: 2925
Would rather not give up Hiura or Burnes, maybe check on Wheeler who can be every bit as good next year and would be cheaper since he has only a year of control.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 9:06 AM Post
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Could just be me but I think Burnes could get you similar production that Thor provides. So why trade that away for a more expensive/Health risk option?

Huira + I could see. But still doesn’t intrigue me too much. I’d rather target one of Indians pitchers as we line up better as trade partners, imo.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 9:12 AM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
It's tough to see Syndergaard moving specifically because of all the quality SP options available, and his team control. Syndergaard also has the injury risk tag on him. He's a guy that could realistically improve his trade value at the deadline or next offseason, while most guys floated probably can't do that. A healthy 3.5 months of sub 3.5 ERA from Syndergaard will boost his value quite a bit.

On a side, Syndergaard is the type of guy that it makes sense to include a guy like Hiura for. 3 years of Syndergaard vs 2 years of Realmuto, the value isn't even close. And if I'm trading Hiura, I don't think I would be willing to include one of those major 3 arms in the trade. Hiura, one of Brown/Ray, and one or two other lesser prospects...or Hiura and a current MLB arm like Anderson or Davies.

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out. I think we can still create a valuable enough package without Hiura/Burnes, but I imagine the Mets will insist or stand pat.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 9:22 AM Post

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trwi7 said:
BrewersAA said:
Maybe Schoop, Santana, Jesus, Thames, peralta, Doubon, Corey Ray, and throw in the money to cover Schoop


I too would endorse a trade where we clear a ton of money, don't give up any really good prospects and get rid of the fringes of our 25 man roster. Unfortunately, that's not how this works.


Junior Spivey, Lyle Overbay, Craig Counsell, Chris Capuano, Chad Moeller and Jorge De La Rosa say "hi!"

Maybe the Brewers could add a Noochie Varner-esque lottery ticket to sweeten the deal.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 9:30 AM Post
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ThisIsMyCrew said:
So why trade that away for a more expensive/Health risk option?


Probably the fact Corbin Burnes is totally unproven as a starter at the MLB level and thinking he will be like Thor is wishful thinking. I think Burnes could be really good, but I don't think he has the pitches and history to make me confident he will be anywhere near what Thor is.

I mean there is always risk trading away prospects especially close to the MLB level. When we got Yelich there was a chance Brinson would break out, be similar to Yelich, and the Brewers would have made one of the worst trades in history before any of the other players made an MLB appearance. That trade could have been a complete nightmare. But you take risks sometimes and go with the proven guy.

The big hangup for me is that injury history.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 10:48 AM Post
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"that injury history" is why we have a chance to get him a little cheaper than if "that injury history" wasn't a concern...


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 11:16 AM Post
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As much as it would hurt, I would be comfortable moving Hiura for Thor provided it isn't much more than filler prospects on our end to complete the deal. A rotation of Thor-Chacin-Burnes-Woodruff-Nelson/Peralta/Davies is wow and has potential to be the best in Brewers history (assuming health for Thor & Nelson and continued development for Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta).

Brewers would need to prioritize adding a 2B in FA and it just so happens there a few to choose from (LeMahieu, Dozier, Harrison).


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 11:27 AM Post
Posts: 641
Location: Washburn, WI
His injury history is why I wouldn’t give up Hiura or Burnes in a trade for him. Hiura’s bat is too special to be moved. His hitting tool makes his floor as high as any player we’ve had in years. If he taps into more power, he could be a .300 hitter that hits 30 home runs while being one of the premier second baseman in the game.

I see Burnes being a staple in our rotation for 5 or 6 years. Having him pitch for cheap the next three seasons before his arbitration years is what will allow us to spend big elsewhere. He is the first legit pitching prospect we have had since Gallardo. Moving him now seems counter-productive.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 11:45 AM Post
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I would begrudgingly give up Hiura and Ray for Thor because how many opportunities will this franchise ever have to add a legit Ace pitcher with multiple years of control, especially coming off a year where we made it to Game 7 of the NLCS. We are all aware of the injury history he has, but I just don't think we can afford to pass up his caliber of pitcher for that length of control. His control is basically the exact amount of time for our window to finally win a WS.

I love Hiura, but I just think you have to do it if offered the opportunity.

Edit - And I would include Hiura over Burnes because getting rid of Burnes and adding Thor is just counter-intuitive. Keep the controllable pitching!!!


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 12:10 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
It's tough to see Syndergaard moving specifically because of all the quality SP options available, and his team control. Syndergaard also has the injury risk tag on him. He's a guy that could realistically improve his trade value at the deadline or next offseason, while most guys floated probably can't do that. A healthy 3.5 months of sub 3.5 ERA from Syndergaard will boost his value quite a bit.

On a side, Syndergaard is the type of guy that it makes sense to include a guy like Hiura for. 3 years of Syndergaard vs 2 years of Realmuto, the value isn't even close. And if I'm trading Hiura, I don't think I would be willing to include one of those major 3 arms in the trade. Hiura, one of Brown/Ray, and one or two other lesser prospects...or Hiura and a current MLB arm like Anderson or Davies.

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out. I think we can still create a valuable enough package without Hiura/Burnes, but I imagine the Mets will insist or stand pat.


This is not a sub 3.5ERA guy. He's a Sub 3ERA Ace. For Hiura this is who you trade him for. It'd cost some pitching too. Id try Davies or Woodruff. Plus a guylike Ponce.

Talk about injury history and not wanting to part with Hiura, when Hiura has a history of recent himself.
I wouldnt regret the loss for Thor. He's one of maybe 10guys you say that for. Nothing like Quintana or Gray trade proposal risk involved. He is a top ten SP in all of Baseball


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 12:17 PM Post
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Heck Cleveland reportedly has 3 SPs on the table that are projected to match if not exceed Thor's 2019 projections and none of them would require trading Hiura.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 12:44 PM Post
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True Blue Brew Crew said:
Heck Cleveland reportedly has 3 SPs on the table that are projected to match if not exceed Thor's 2019 projections and none of them would require trading Hiura.

Bauer might take him and possibly the other two. Imo.


As for Syndergaard look at what Sale and Quintana cost. He’s absolutely going to take Hiure, at least 1 of Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff and one other good prospect like Ray, Turang or Brown, etc.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 3:40 PM Post
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Soo....the Mets are talking to teams about Syndergaard and also trying to obtain 36 year old Cano. Huh??


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 5:38 PM Post
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Patrick425 said:
Soo....the Mets are talking to teams about Syndergaard and also trying to obtain 36 year old Cano. Huh??


Smart really. Get arguably the best young reliever in the game in exchange for taking on a contract they can afford instead of giving up big prospects.


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Online  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 5:47 PM Post
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Patrick425 said:
Soo....the Mets are talking to teams about Syndergaard and also trying to obtain 36 year old Cano. Huh??


Yeah, they're still dumb. I don't think anyone thought any differently after they hired an agent as their GM.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Syndergaard and deGrom
Posted: November 29, 2018, 6:17 PM Post
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I’m slightly curious why the guy who helped represent Noah Syndergaard until a month ago is seemingly so intent on moving him? I’m far from a conspiracy theorist, but the fact that no one outside of the doctors and Thor himself would likely know Syndergaard’s medicals better than the CAA staff is slightly disconcerting.

I also think it is strange Van Wagenen is on the verge of trading for the mega Cano contract he personally negotiated as an agent.


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