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Sonny Gray

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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 6:18 PM Post
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Posts: 1880
Jon Hey! Man! said:
Teams involved have included: reds, giants, brewers, a's, padres, braves, mariners.

So 7 teams have kicked the tires so far... Have any test driven the vehicle?

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 6:30 PM Post
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The Yankees org is very skilled at a manipulating the market via the media. I doubt there is a heated bidding war going on between seven teams.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 6:41 PM Post
Posts: 507
SRB said:
The Yankees org is very skilled at a manipulating the market via the media. I doubt there is a heated bidding war going on between seven teams.


It's more like the Yankees need the roster spot and are putting out the call to see if anyone wants to improve their mediocre offers. If not, they'll accept the one that's currently best of the bunch.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 7:48 PM Post
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Posts: 9375
Yes the yanks like to play the game hopefully we know DS won't buy into it.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 9:27 PM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
I'll predict:

Padres get:
RHP-Sonny Gray

Yankees get:
RHP-Reggie Lawson (currently #21 on Padre list at MLB Pipeline)
LHP-Joey Cantillo
OF-Jack Suwinski


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 10:02 PM Post
Posts: 7611
I like our current rotation, but if it only takes a Supak or Stokes, I'd do it.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 17, 2019, 10:39 PM Post
Posts: 2820
paul253 said:
I’d take a flyer on Gray but I don’t want to give up Zack Brown. I’d be willing to move two lower level prospects or lower ceiling guys like Ponce or Diplan.



Same here. 99 pct of the names thrown out on here I'm totally indifferent to.....and I'm by no means confident he would be a stud for us, but he does seem like the type of guy who could catch lightening in a bottle as a more seasoned, smarter pitcher in a small market playing for a new contract(he is going to be a FA, next year, right?).


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 7:43 AM Post
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Posts: 5594
I'm just getting sick of the "he might be traded" scuttlebutt. Cashman needs to crap or get off the pot for heaven's sake. If any teams gives up an upper-end prospect for him, I'm gonna be mad.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 8:43 AM Post
Posts: 449
Can someone explain to me why Cashman came out right at the beginning of the offseason and basically outright said that they were going to move on from Sonny and trade him? What negotiating advantage does that give them? Why not just keep that information to yourselves, and try to keep some of your negotiating power with other teams? Yes, it may still leak out anyway that you are looking to move him, but it just seemed very odd that Cashman took the route of spilling the beans from the outset that they had every intention of moving him this winter.

Now watch - I'm sure some desperate team will still give them a top prospect for him.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 8:52 AM Post
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madtownhawk said:
Can someone explain to me why Cashman came out right at the beginning of the offseason and basically outright said that they were going to move on from Sonny and trade him? What negotiating advantage does that give them? Why not just keep that information to yourselves, and try to keep some of your negotiating power with other teams? Yes, it may still leak out anyway that you are looking to move him, but it just seemed very odd that Cashman took the route of spilling the beans from the outset that they had every intention of moving him this winter.

Now watch - I'm sure some desperate team will still give them a top prospect for him.


I saw some scuttlebutt from Yankee fans that a trade of Gray, Kahnle and a mid-level prospect for Bumgarner was going to happen. That would make me sick. That's like the Brewers dealing Chase Anderson, Jacob Barnes and Olczak for Bumgarner. Yankee fans are equal parts pretentious and delusional.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 9:12 AM Post
Posts: 7852
I guess I don't see the issue. Cashman made it known Gray was on the block, which isn't always a bad idea. It lets all the other teams know he's ready to move him for the right deal. So far he hasn't seen a good enough offer to pull the trigger, has nothing to lose by waiting longer. He'll always be able to move him a month from now and get something in return, so why not try to get the best deal he can? I mean, I hate the Yankees too, but I don't see them doing anything unusual here.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 9:21 AM Post
Posts: 449
I thought I read that with the signing of Ottavino that they will now need to cut someone to keep their 40 man roster at 40? Now, I suppose they might have someone else that they could cut if they can't find what they are looking for in a trade for Gray, but it seemed as if the Ottavino signing was now pushing them to make a decision on Gray?


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 9:30 AM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
I wouldn't think Kahnle would have much of any value because he was rotten last year and his fastball velocity dropped from 98.1 to 95.5. He also was battling shoulder tendinitis. But in 2016-2017 he had a 2.60 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 2.63 FIP and 12.1 K/9. Wouldn't be unreasonable for a team to think he'd be over the shoulder tendinitis, velocity will tick back up and his performance would improve. He is controlled for 3 more seasons, and since he was bad last year he will only make a pretty reasonable 1.39 million in 2019.

I don't think trading 1 year of Bumgarner for 1 year of Gray and 3 years of Kahnle is that unreasonable. Gray and Bumgarner are both 29 years old. Last year Gray had a 4.17 FIP, Bumgarner had a 3.99 FIP. The Giants would also save 3.11 million in the swap.

I'd put Bumgarner's surplus value at 15 million (assumes 3 WAR in 2019) and Gray's surplus value at 5.1 million (assumes 1.4 WAR in 2019). Kahnle's surplus value probably somewhere between 2 and 5 million based on what happened last year (let's say 3 million). So I'd say the Yankees would be getting about +7 million surplus dollars in the swap which is a definite "advantage" but it's not a crazy suggestion. If a team is high on Kahnle and thinks he will bounce back...he'd only have to be good for a total of 1.6 WAR over three seasons to even this out from a projection standpoint.

Personally, I think if the Yankees threw in one more role-player prospect, then this deal would be a real even swap.

Yankees get:
LHP-Madison Bumgarner

Giants get:
RHP-Sonny Gray
RHP-Tommy Kahnle
RHP-Nick Nelson (#17 Yankee's prospect on MLB pipeline)


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 4:47 PM Post
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From Ken Rosenthal earlier this afternoon...

#Reds making progress in pursuit of #Yankees’ Sonny Gray, sources tell The Athletic.


Jon Heyman added the following...

In Sonny Gray talks, Yankees have shown interest in 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson from Reds, among others, who have a nice prospect list. A draft pick could also factor into a potential Sonny deal.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 8:25 PM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
Nice to see the Yankees have been gracious enough to back off the Taylor Trammell ask. [laughing]

To ask for Stephenson or Long isn't a crazy, but it would still be an overpay IMO from the Reds standpoint. They should tell the Yankees to move about another 6 spots on the prospect list and then they will be in business.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 8:46 PM Post
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JosephC said:
Nice to see the Yankees have been gracious enough to back off the Taylor Trammell ask. [laughing]

To ask for Stephenson or Long isn't a crazy, but it would still be an overpay IMO from the Reds standpoint. They should tell the Yankees to move about another 6 spots on the prospect list and then they will be in business.


You are assuming that the Yankees (or Reds) care in the least about an arbitrary prospect ranking. I mean, it is easy to determine what every team's top prospects are, but once you get past the first 5 or so, each team is going to have its own ranking system, and I wouldn't doubt that its different than the mlb or any other prospect ranking list that is available to fans.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 9:38 PM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
JosephC said:
Nice to see the Yankees have been gracious enough to back off the Taylor Trammell ask. [laughing]

To ask for Stephenson or Long isn't a crazy, but it would still be an overpay IMO from the Reds standpoint. They should tell the Yankees to move about another 6 spots on the prospect list and then they will be in business.


You are assuming that the Yankees (or Reds) care in the least about an arbitrary prospect ranking. I mean, it is easy to determine what every team's top prospects are, but once you get past the first 5 or so, each team is going to have its own ranking system, and I wouldn't doubt that its different than the mlb or any other prospect ranking list that is available to fans.


Really?!?! I never would have guessed.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 18, 2019, 10:00 PM Post
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Posts: 5594
JosephC said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
JosephC said:
Nice to see the Yankees have been gracious enough to back off the Taylor Trammell ask. [laughing]

To ask for Stephenson or Long isn't a crazy, but it would still be an overpay IMO from the Reds standpoint. They should tell the Yankees to move about another 6 spots on the prospect list and then they will be in business.


You are assuming that the Yankees (or Reds) care in the least about an arbitrary prospect ranking. I mean, it is easy to determine what every team's top prospects are, but once you get past the first 5 or so, each team is going to have its own ranking system, and I wouldn't doubt that its different than the mlb or any other prospect ranking list that is available to fans.


Really?!?! I never would have guessed.


Sorry if that came across as snarky. I didn't intend it to. It just bothers me when the national talking heads take prospect rankings as gospel. It's typically how fans immediately decide whether a team "wins" a trade too. It just gets old is all. Sorry if you're offended.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 19, 2019, 10:10 AM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
No worries, and I'll apologize as I was being overly flippant in my response.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
Posted: January 19, 2019, 10:12 AM Post
Posts: 1344
Location: Madison, WI
Sounds like the Reds are about to so something really stupid. Yet again New York can make a bad move only to have a small market team help them out by getting all stupid when dealing with the almighty Yankees.


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