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Sonny Gray

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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#21

Posted: August 12, 2018, 3:26 PM Post
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Location: Pilgrim in an unholy land
It is nearly unthinkable to me that Gray clears enough teams on waivers to fall all the way to the Crew. The AL teams get first crack at him, where you have to figure at least the A's and Mariners would be intrigued, not to mention a few teams hoping to contend next year, since Gray has a final arbitration year in 2019. If, somehow, he clears the AL teams, then the NL teams can claim him, in order from worst record to best. Even if all the non-contending teams in the NL pass on him (again, not a given, since he isn't a rental), the Phillies and Braves at least figure to be interested, and you could include the Pirates, Cardinals, and Nationals in that list, as well. All of those teams get priority over the Brewers due to record.

Now, putting all that to the side, in theory, a Sonny Gray acquisition actually makes a lot of sense. Gray and Derek Johnson apparently have a great relationship, stemming from their time at Vanderbilt (I read that, at least as of a couple years ago, the two stayed in regular communication, and Gray has had nothing but glowing things to say about DJ, even going so far as to call him a father figure). Some speculate that the Yankees, or the New York environment, has gotten Gray way off track from what makes him successful. He uses his sinker/fastball combo about half as often as he did during his most successful stretch with the A's, and it could be a product of the Yankees' coaches de-emphasizing fastballs in general considering their homer-happy stadium. It is possible he hates the media circus in New York, especially with all the expectations he brought with him as a high-priced trade acquisition. And finally, it seems the Brewers (who, admittedly, "check in on everyone and everything") did more than a little nibbling around Gray during the off-season, before moving in other directions.

More realistically, I think a move in the offseason could happen, and unless he has some miraculous stretch out of the pen in September or October, his value will be at an all-time low at that point. That has the makings of a classic David Stearns move. That being said, if somehow the Brewers could get their hands on him this month, I'd be supportive of the effort. Even if it doesn't pan out, it has a lot of logic to recommend it.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#22

Posted: August 12, 2018, 10:48 PM Post
Posts: 2613
Besides the injuries down in the bullpen, I'm wondering if part of the issue is the results of relievers being used to cover too many innings all season long. If there's any merit to that idea, Sonny Gray as "damaged goods" in terms of a "sell low" candidate makes plenty of sense. I'd be on board if we could pay a price comparable to what Oakland just gave up to get Mike Fiers -- basically an injured lottery-ticket non-super-prospect -- and I can't see why NY should think they should get anything more.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#23

Posted: August 13, 2018, 4:16 AM Post
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Grays FIP is 4.32. Junior is 4.29 and Chacin is 4.26.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#24

Posted: August 13, 2018, 7:17 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:
Grays FIP is 4.32. Junior is 4.29 and Chacin is 4.26.


So what you are saying is that Gray is putting up similar numbers to the top two pitchers in the team's rotation? Sign me up! I'd love to see a waiver deal for Gray, as long as the cost isn't enormous.

I think the "Freddy Peralta is a viable starting option" idea has run its course. It's time to either send him down or put him in the pen.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#25

Posted: August 13, 2018, 9:02 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Boomer5 said:
Grays FIP is 4.32. Junior is 4.29 and Chacin is 4.26.


So what you are saying is that Gray is putting up similar numbers to the top two pitchers in the team's rotation? Sign me up! I'd love to see a waiver deal for Gray, as long as the cost isn't enormous.

I think the "Freddy Peralta is a viable starting option" idea has run its course. It's time to either send him down or put him in the pen.


Depending on how valuable you find FIP, Gray has been more of a meh pitcher than a trainwreck as has been described.

However I am sure Cashman has the same access to FIP as we do so I’m thinking it won’t be for Wilkerson [wink]


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#26

Posted: August 13, 2018, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 2613
They can have Wilkerson AND a 25-30 (or sub-30) ranked A-ball player. Can't pass up that deal!

Besides, Wilkerson was previously in the Red Sox' system and what a brilliant way to rub a playoff defeat in the Red Sox' faces if you're the Yankees!


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#27

Posted: August 13, 2018, 12:04 PM Post
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MNBrew said:
Besides the injuries down in the bullpen, I'm wondering if part of the issue is the results of relievers being used to cover too many innings all season long.


I think the easy way out on the bullpen having a bad stretch is to say it is workload. When you look game to game, I do not see anyone in the pen pitching too much.

If anyone was it would Jeffress and Jennings. Jeffress isn't an issue as we know. And Jennings is pitching a little stronger lately than in the middle of the season. It would be nice if they kept him away from righties a little bit more, but sometimes he pitches in blowouts and it doesn't matter. Williams isn't probably used to this season, but you hope a 27 yo would make it, regardless he just got a break anyways.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#28

Posted: August 13, 2018, 3:02 PM Post
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Roderick said:
MNBrew said:
Besides the injuries down in the bullpen, I'm wondering if part of the issue is the results of relievers being used to cover too many innings all season long.


I think the easy way out on the bullpen having a bad stretch is to say it is workload. When you look game to game, I do not see anyone in the pen pitching too much.

If anyone was it would Jeffress and Jennings. Jeffress isn't an issue as we know. And Jennings is pitching a little stronger lately than in the middle of the season. It would be nice if they kept him away from righties a little bit more, but sometimes he pitches in blowouts and it doesn't matter. Williams isn't probably used to this season, but you hope a 27 yo would make it, regardless he just got a break anyways.

I've long thought the 8-man bullpen is overkill, but if starters only cover 4-6 innings the majority of the time, then maybe each guy's getting comparable use if you go back to the days of the 6- and 7-man bullpens and most starters routinely went 5-8 innings.

Maybe it's just an unfortunately timed bad (read: mortal) stretch for a handful of guys at once. And maybe data-informed scouting's just gotten that much more "fancy" (read: good) re: dissecting pitchers' stuff, tendencies, etc., just like it got to being over the past decade-plus on hitters.

In the end, I think a solid starter would still be a plus for the Brewers right now and Sonny Gray makes a lot of sense.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#29

Posted: August 13, 2018, 6:21 PM Post
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the yanks just put CC on the DL and that means Gray not going


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
#30

Posted: August 13, 2018, 7:11 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Yanks were smart not to stop after the Happ acquisition, going out and getting Lynn could turn out to be a pretty decent move for them. Just wondering if Tanaka will make it though the rest of the season.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
#31

Posted: November 05, 2018, 7:31 PM Post
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I am not convinced this necessarily makes sense for the Brewers, but it sounds like the Yankees are indeed planning to move Sonny Gray this offseason.

Per this Bob Nightengale Tweet:

Brian Cashman says he has been in talks with several teams about Sonny Gray and has full expectations of trading him this winter.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#32

Posted: November 05, 2018, 7:33 PM Post
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Would have made a lot more sense if we still had DJ...


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#33

Posted: November 05, 2018, 7:43 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Would have made a lot more sense if we still had DJ...


It makes sense regardless. He's a terrific bounce-back candidate. I have no doubt that whoever is chosen as the new pitching coach will follow many of the same principles as the previous one.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
#34

Posted: November 05, 2018, 7:57 PM Post
Posts: 1277
Location: Madison, WI
IMO the Brewers will likely be close enough to Attanasio's payroll limit where gambles like this would have to be payroll neutral. Personally, I'd just rather keep Thames for the left-handed bat, but initially didn't think it would be crazy for a Thames/Gray swap. Yankees might be desperate to dump Gray, and while I certainly don't think Thames would be their first choice, they have had issues at 1B the last couple of years.

Then I looked at the arbitration estimate for Gray and it is 9.1 million. No thanks. He might get moved and have a great 2019 season, but let somebody else take that gamble.

The other thing about Gray is that since the start of the 2016 season he's had: 4.59 ERA, 93 ERA+, 4.21 FIP, 1.38 WHIP. So it's not like he just crashed when he got to New York. As a whole, over the last three years he just been a really sort of average/below-average pitcher.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
#35

Posted: November 06, 2018, 5:15 AM Post
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Via this Tweet from Max Wildstein:

Source: #Yankees have spoken to the Braves, Blue Jays, Reds, Brewers, and Giants about Sonny Gray. GM Brian Cashman has mentioned that he will trade away Sonny Gray this offseason.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#36

Posted: November 06, 2018, 5:32 AM Post
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We need lefties a lot more than righties. Same as everybody else I suppose, but Gray doesn't seem like an obvious upgrade or diversification of the staff that we have-and he's not particularly cheap.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#37

Posted: November 20, 2018, 8:46 AM Post
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On the radio they were talking Gray for Schoop


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#38

Posted: November 20, 2018, 9:00 AM Post
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I would take him for Schoop in an instant though I doubt that is a real possibility.


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Online  Re: Sonny Gray
#39

Posted: November 20, 2018, 9:30 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
If the Brewers aren't going to offer Schoop arbitration, then it only becomes an issue if they want to tie up 9 million in Gray or use the 9 million elsewhere (catching upgrade). Yankees seem desperate to move Gray, and have a 1 year middle infield opening with the Gregorius injury. Both players are only controlled for 1 more season. It seems to make sense for both sides.

If Attanasio bumps the payroll enough where the Brewers add Gray's 9 million and still have 12-15 million to play with (add a top catcher and a 2B bridge to Hiura), then I wouldn't be opposed to a Gray/Schoop swap.


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Offline  Re: Sonny Gray
#40

Posted: November 20, 2018, 9:31 AM Post
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JosephC said:
If the Brewers aren't going to offer Schoop arbitration, then it only becomes an issue if they want to tie up 9 million in Gray or use the 9 million elsewhere (catching upgrade). Yankees seem desperate to move Gray, and have a 1 year middle infield opening with the Gregorius injury. Both players are only controlled for 1 more season. It seems to make sense for both sides.

If Attanasio bumps the payroll enough where the Brewers add Gray's 9 million and still have 12-15 million to play with (add a top catcher and a 2B bridge to Hiura), then I wouldn't be opposed to a Gray/Schoop swap.


After Hiura's AFL season... do we really need a bridge to Hiura, or just to plug him in on Opening Day?


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