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Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19

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Online  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#21

Posted: October 10, 2018, 10:31 AM Post
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long ball said:
Jose Cardenal1 said:
I just don't see the Brewers making a starting pitching move. I think Stearns & co. are very happy with Burnes, Woody & Peralta as options to augment, Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Nelson(?), Guerra and I think there is a good chance they bring back one of Miley or Gio.

I think it is more likely they go after a bullpen arm assuming they do not pick up Soria's option.

I realize this topic is for Starting Pitching but the move I would hope is made is to strengthen the everyday lineup with another hitter. The most obvious choice for me is JT Realmuto. An elite player at his position that would upgrade the everyday lineup considerably (no offense to Pina or folk hero Kratz).

Prediction: Cubs add Harper, Cards add Machado and the Brewers add Realmuto. What a division that would be. Poor Reds & Pirates.


I agree with you that the Brewers could definitely use an upgrade to the line up.

I just have a hard time paying the prospect price for Realmuto. He's a great player- probably the best catcher in the league right now. It's just tough for catchers to hold up offensively for multiple years.

I'd rather spend the cash on Grandal than the prospects on Realmuto although I think both are unlikely to land in Milwaukee.

A bat at second base or corner OF would be nice. That bat could be Santana though.


I think the team's regular 2B is already on the team. It's going to be Shaw if they re-up Moustakas, or Schoop if they don't. I suppose they could take a chance on someone like Dozier, Murphy or LeMaheau on a short, cheap deal. There looks to be quite a few solid 2B options on the market this year.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#22

Posted: October 10, 2018, 12:09 PM Post
Posts: 479
You could be right, but I have a hard time seeing them pay Schoop $10 mil next year or Moustakas $15 mil.

I originally thought offering arb to Schoop was a no brainer, but I've turned on that a bit. Looking at the free agent market I think there are better 1 year bargains out there whether it be at third base or second base.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#23

Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:25 PM Post
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Some names to throw out there:

Robbie Ray
Carlos Rodon
James Paxton
Tyler Skaggs
Danny Salazar
Carlos Corrasco
Zack Wheeler
Joes Berrios (won't happen)
***typical names
Sonny Gray
Marcus Stroman


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#24

Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:27 PM Post
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Joel Sherman floats the Sonny Gray idea in the New York Post in an article looking to reload the Yankees.
https://nypost.com/2018/10/10/greinke-corbin-arenado-heres-ideal-yankees-offseason-of-reloading/

And a word on Gray: Many teams will believe the righty (29 next month) salvageable, and there will be a trade market. His Vanderbilt pitching coach, Derek Johnson, is the Brewers’ pitching coach and — like Yankees dud A.J. Burnett — Gray could get traded into the NL Central and have success. Gray could help the Yankees do some system replenishing. Or how about two guys who would be entering their walk seasons off of down years: Gray for Milwaukee’s Jonathan Schoop, who in theory could play second, with Torres moving to third and Andujar to first? Schoop and fellow Curacao native Gregorius are friends


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#25

Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:34 PM Post
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I'd be all for a Schoop for Gray trade.


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Online  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#26

Posted: October 10, 2018, 2:41 PM Post
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bensheeps said:
Joel Sherman floats the Sonny Gray idea in the New York Post in an article looking to reload the Yankees.
https://nypost.com/2018/10/10/greinke-corbin-arenado-heres-ideal-yankees-offseason-of-reloading/

And a word on Gray: Many teams will believe the righty (29 next month) salvageable, and there will be a trade market. His Vanderbilt pitching coach, Derek Johnson, is the Brewers’ pitching coach and — like Yankees dud A.J. Burnett — Gray could get traded into the NL Central and have success. Gray could help the Yankees do some system replenishing. Or how about two guys who would be entering their walk seasons off of down years: Gray for Milwaukee’s Jonathan Schoop, who in theory could play second, with Torres moving to third and Andujar to first? Schoop and fellow Curacao native Gregorius are friends


That is a really interesting theory, but it would be totally contingent on either reupping Moustakas or targeting a FA 2B like Murphy, Dozier or LeMaheau. Murphy would be my top choice, but he is likely looking for multiple years. They could get a stop-gap like Neil Walker for a year, or even turn over the position to a Dubon/Perez platoon. My choice would be to resign Moustakas and play Shaw at 2B, or if Moose walks, play Shaw at 3B and sign Murphy.

I personally would love to see what Johnson could do with Sonny Gray, though.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#27

Posted: October 10, 2018, 3:54 PM Post
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One of the issues with Murphy is that he's an awful defender; much worse than Shaw is at 2B. Which is fine if he's hitting like he did in 2016 and 2017, but he was considerably worse than that this year. Would need to be fairly confident that was due to something either temporary or fixable (he did have some injury problems) if Brewers are to take a chance there. If Moustakas stays, then I'm all over the Schoop-Gray deal though (Even if it's just a writer speculating at this point). Aguilar-Shaw-Arcia-Moustakas in the infield, with Dubon and/or Perez to play 2B/SS/3B against tough lefties or to solidify defense. I'm also all for it if a decent FA deal can be had at 2B, but I have concerns over most of the 2B options on the market. Most of the good players would be looking for multi-year deals of varying size, and Brewers are mostly looking for a short term solution or insurance. Not sure enough quality can be had for that role.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#28

Posted: October 10, 2018, 5:20 PM Post
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Is 2019 Gray really better than Davies or Anderson? I don't see why we would trade a guy who was excellent last year but had a mediocre season this year (Schoop) for a guy who has been mediocre for years now.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#29

Posted: October 11, 2018, 6:39 AM Post
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The Brewers aren't committed to Schoop and his salary. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to offer arbitration if you're just going to turn around and trade him for an equally high salary gamble.

The Brewers can find a project starting pitcher for a lot less than $9mil that Gray is projected to earn in arbitration.


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Online  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#30

Posted: October 11, 2018, 9:06 AM Post
Posts: 7921
SRB said:
Is 2019 Gray really better than Davies or Anderson? I don't see why we would trade a guy who was excellent last year but had a mediocre season this year (Schoop) for a guy who has been mediocre for years now.


No, he's not. I think the key is how Davies and Anderson feel about getting left out of the home stretch and the playoffs. They're being good teammates, which is great, but we don't know how they feel. Once the dust settles, if one of them really wants to move on, then the Brewers have to at least take that into account.

If they're "fine" then I don't see them trade, simply because the return wouldn't be enough to move them. You need that depth, especially depth at a reasonable salary.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#31

Posted: October 11, 2018, 10:19 PM Post
Posts: 990
Location: Ohio
OnaBadger58 said:
Some names to throw out there:

Robbie Ray
Carlos Rodon
James Paxton
Tyler Skaggs
Danny Salazar
Carlos Corrasco
Zack Wheeler
Joes Berrios (won't happen)
***typical names
Sonny Gray
Marcus Stroman


I understand the motivation to investigate a trade for Carlos Carrasco but please explain why Cleveland would be motivated to deal Cookie.

Cookie still is under club control for 2 seasons (2019 & 2020) if Cleveland picks up the team options and each year Cookie is cheaper in cost than Kluber (controlled via contract/ team options in 2019, 2020 & 2021) or Bauer (2 arbitration years of 2019 & 2020 remaining, projected for a $11.6M deal in 2019)...

It's not like Cleveland needs to rebuild or overhaul itself to remain competitive/ atop the AL Central in 2019.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#32

Posted: October 12, 2018, 2:19 PM Post
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SRB said:
Is 2019 Gray really better than Davies or Anderson? I don't see why we would trade a guy who was excellent last year but had a mediocre season this year (Schoop) for a guy who has been mediocre for years now.



Road appearances this year for Gray: 15 starts, 3.17 ERA, 1.155 WHIP, 9.9 K/9, 3.55 K/BB, 61 tOPS+. That isn’t mediocre or average. That’s a guy who is in need of new scenery, who was probably messed up by what his coaches were asking him to do in NY. If Johnson could build wonders out of clay like Chacín and Miley, count me excited by what he could do with Gray, whose pedigree and track record looks like fine marble by comparison. Oh, and then there’s the history between the two. Frankly, it makes so much sense I’m hesitant to call it likely, only because Stearns seems to be all about zigging when he’s supposed to zag. Otherwise, this seems like a fait accompli.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#33

Posted: October 12, 2018, 3:05 PM Post
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MadThinker88 said:
OnaBadger58 said:
Some names to throw out there:

Robbie Ray
Carlos Rodon
James Paxton
Tyler Skaggs
Danny Salazar
Carlos Corrasco
Zack Wheeler
Joes Berrios (won't happen)
***typical names At some point,
Sonny Gray
Marcus Stroman


I understand the motivation to investigate a trade for Carlos Carrasco but please explain why Cleveland would be motivated to deal Cookie.

Cookie still is under club control for 2 seasons (2019 & 2020) if Cleveland picks up the team options and each year Cookie is cheaper in cost than Kluber (controlled via contract/ team options in 2019, 2020 & 2021) or Bauer (2 arbitration years of 2019 & 2020 remaining, projected for a $11.6M deal in 2019)...

It's not like Cleveland needs to rebuild or overhaul itself to remain competitive/ atop the AL Central in 2019.

Well, the Indians were carrying an outfield that consisted of Brantley, Kipnis, Brandon Guyer, Rajai Davis, and Melky Cabrera (I understand Naquin and Zimmer were injured). At some point, at may be worth trading an asset to fix what has been a major need for this team. Triston Mckenzie is knocking on the door for the rotation. 42-44 vs non AL Central teams. This team was made to look better this year than they were due to their putrid division.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#34

Posted: October 12, 2018, 3:27 PM Post
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Yankees will be trading Gray, I'm all for a shot in Milwaukee if the price was right, meaning not giving up much, and I love the fact he would be reuniting with DJ. If anyone can make him right again, it would be him.

If we are not bringing back Miley/Gio, Gray makes perfect sense.


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Online  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#35

Posted: October 12, 2018, 9:00 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Yankees will be trading Gray, I'm all for a shot in Milwaukee if the price was right, meaning not giving up much, and I love the fact he would be reuniting with DJ. If anyone can make him right again, it would be him.

If we are not bringing back Miley/Gio, Gray makes perfect sense.


I agree completely. Gray is the perfect type of pitcher for this team to target.


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Online  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#36

Posted: October 12, 2018, 9:04 PM Post
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OnaBadger58 said:
MadThinker88 said:
OnaBadger58 said:
Some names to throw out there:

Robbie Ray
Carlos Rodon
James Paxton
Tyler Skaggs
Danny Salazar
Carlos Corrasco
Zack Wheeler
Joes Berrios (won't happen)
***typical names At some point,
Sonny Gray
Marcus Stroman


I understand the motivation to investigate a trade for Carlos Carrasco but please explain why Cleveland would be motivated to deal Cookie.

Cookie still is under club control for 2 seasons (2019 & 2020) if Cleveland picks up the team options and each year Cookie is cheaper in cost than Kluber (controlled via contract/ team options in 2019, 2020 & 2021) or Bauer (2 arbitration years of 2019 & 2020 remaining, projected for a $11.6M deal in 2019)...

It's not like Cleveland needs to rebuild or overhaul itself to remain competitive/ atop the AL Central in 2019.

Well, the Indians were carrying an outfield that consisted of Brantley, Kipnis, Brandon Guyer, Rajai Davis, and Melky Cabrera (I understand Naquin and Zimmer were injured). At some point, at may be worth trading an asset to fix what has been a major need for this team. Triston Mckenzie is knocking on the door for the rotation. 42-44 vs non AL Central teams. This team was made to look better this year than they were due to their putrid division.


You nailed it. The Indians horrible outfield is what held them back this year, but instead of addressing it, they dealt their best trade chip for a set-up man. Not only is McKenzie knocking at the door, Salazar should be back. They have a abundance of ML-caliber starting pitching. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them trade some of that depth to firm up their outfield.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#37

Posted: October 12, 2018, 10:45 PM Post
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Who says we even need to trade for a SP and not just get FA one? I'm figuring that's what we'll do and the remaining starters will just be shifted to the bullpen to build more bullpen starts and just have that reliever who can go three innings. What we've got isn't going to bring back some big prospect, so why not just put option guys in AAA?


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#38

Posted: October 13, 2018, 1:12 PM Post
Posts: 990
Location: Ohio
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
OnaBadger58 said:

Well, the Indians were carrying an outfield that consisted of Brantley, Kipnis, Brandon Guyer, Rajai Davis, and Melky Cabrera (I understand Naquin and Zimmer were injured). At some point, at may be worth trading an asset to fix what has been a major need for this team. Triston Mckenzie is knocking on the door for the rotation. 42-44 vs non AL Central teams. This team was made to look better this year than they were due to their putrid division.


You nailed it. The Indians horrible outfield is what held them back this year, but instead of addressing it, they dealt their best trade chip for a set-up man. Not only is McKenzie knocking at the door, Salazar should be back. They have a abundance of ML-caliber starting pitching. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them trade some of that depth to firm up their outfield.


I believe I wasn't clear earlier.
I wasn't saying Cleveland wouldn't look to move some of the pitching depth. I was asking why Cookie would be the piece moved by Cleveland. He is controlled for the same length of time as Bauer (& is cheaper) & after the AL CY vote is announced, Kluber will be making nearly twice the amount as Cookie (17M vs 9.75M). For a smaller market with payroll limitations, that raises the value of Cookie in comparison to both those guys. Trying to trade for Cookie would cost more than those other 2 players.

IF you believe Salazar will return from injury to early 2016 pre-injury performance (& I am not confident he will), he would be the cheapest to acquire of the 4 (him, Kluber, Bauer, Cookie).

As for Cleveland trading Mejia for bullpen help during 2018 (instead of OF help), the bullpen was a bigger mess this season. Many of the injured outfielders (L. Martin, T Naquin, & B Zimmer) look to be back in 2019 at some point. The main bullpen guys (A Miller & C Allen) are now free agents & most likely gone so Hand/ Cimber will be foundation pieces in 2019 and beyond.


Last edited by MadThinker88 on October 18, 2018, 10:05 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#39

Posted: October 15, 2018, 3:59 PM Post
Posts: 2654
If I'm the Brewers, is there any reason not to try to bring back Miley? He HAS figured things out the way we'd hope other reasonable-cost potential reclamation projects (like Gray, whom I like the idea of) would. And given that he missed, oh, a good 1/3 or more of the season, you'd have to think he'd be at least somewhat reasonably priced. I like his pace on the mound & what I sense his attitude to be. . . . I think they have to try to re-sign him. If he feels he's worth way too much, then move on.

Re: Gray & his $9M salary, keep in mind that that's only about $1M more than we "overpaid" (per so many posters here) Chacin last winter.

I'd doubt Gio would be back. He was a classic deadline-type acquisition who did tons better in his limited outings than his '82 counterpart -- Doc Medich (not Don Sutton) -- did.

For all the doubt about MIL's SPs, we sure seem to have a lot of reasonably-paid guys who've gotten us mostly good returns on our investments in them. In the moments they weren't great, Davies & Anderson gave us some reasons to doubt them, but on the whole they're still decent assets at reasonable prices.

I'm not sure what a few of Thames, Schoop, and Broxton could bring us, plus maybe Perez and/or one of the established current starters already being discussed. It probably wouldn't be much in terms of star quality, but I'd take April-October substance (a la Chacin & Miley) over November-March headline excitement.


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Offline  Re: Trade Targets Starting Pitching 2018-19
#40

Posted: October 24, 2018, 8:53 AM Post
Posts: 135
Matt Harvey and Sonny Gray are the ones Stearns will be looking at...but for my money...

It is the one year of Mad Bum that I would be all in on.


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