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2B/3B Options

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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 11, 2018, 10:22 PM Post
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The Brewers have reportedly met with Ian Kinsler at the Winter Meetings per Haudricourt (Twitter Link).


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Post
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I am guessing you have to take a number with all of these meetings.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 11:31 AM Post
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Something interesting of note for Ian Kinsler:

Baseball Prospectus' new batting stat DRC+ rates Kinsler at about league average the past two seasons while wRC+ has him below average the past two seasons. So if the Brewers see his offense as close to league average he makes more sense than I thought he did coming into the off season.

Kinsler will almost certainly only get a one year deal since he's 36.

Very strong defense + league average-ish bat as a stop gap till they call up Hiura is totally acceptable on a 1 yr $5mm deal.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 11:41 AM Post
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SRB said:
Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.

Sorry to bring fantasy baseball into this ( [laughing] ), but I followed Murphy's season very closely last year because I whiffed on picking him early. The reason he was so bad both defensively, and below his standards offensively, was because of his offseason knee surgery. He was initially supposed to be ready around Opening Day but it just kept getting pushed back further and further and he wasn't even doing on-field drills. Then eventually the Nationals ran out of patience months into the season and just rushed him back, even though he could not run at full speed or move side-to-side comfortably, and even though his in-game preparation was perfunctory. Obviously that's a problem at 2B.

Major surgery like that is still a big red flag, so it's not like Murphy is going to get the contract he would have after 2016-2017, but the upside there is tremendous. If he signs on a 2-year deal we would be very lucky.

He can definitely play 1B and I see no reason he can't be a super utility get in a corner OF too. He was a speedy player prior to his injury. Everything depends on whether he's healthy, of course.


Murphy would be worth $5 million in 2019 and 2020, and a team option of $6 million in 2021, and another team option of $7 million in 2022. The 2021 option has a $1 million buyout, the 2022 option has a $2 million buyout.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 1:54 PM Post
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Neil Walker back in 2019 as a stop gap?

He had a career low BABiP (.257) last year which likely explains his poor overall slash line .219/.309/.354. It appears his eye for balls and strikes remains intact, and his ground out to fly out ratio remained at his career mark. He also played 100 innings or so at 1B, 2B, 3B, and RF with mixed results, plus he switch hits for more versatility. I like him on a one year deal or one year deal with option for a 2nd season.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 5:57 PM Post
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SRB said:
Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.


He has a bunch of double digit negative DRS seasons. I think that qualifies as "terrible."

In his defense I would not classify him as "the worst fielding second baseman ever." [smile]


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 6:41 PM Post
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502 to Right said:
SRB said:
Murphy has historically been a below average defender, not a "terrible" defender. So annoying when some claim just becomes received wisdom even though it's totally divorced from facts/statistics.


He has a bunch of double digit negative DRS seasons. I think that qualifies as "terrible."

In his defense I would not classify him as "the worst fielding second baseman ever." [smile]


Yeah, he's not good, but I don't consider that terrible especially in light of more favorable metrics like UZR. Adjusted for playing time he's roughly equivalent to Scooter Gennett, as a reference point.

DRS also thinks Villar is a competent defender, for what it's worth [embarassed]


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 8:00 PM Post
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Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 8:28 PM Post
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rickh150 said:
Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.


do tell.

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 9:32 PM Post
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DHonks said:
rickh150 said:
Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.


do tell.

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.


Both the SS and C struggled offensively, the SS so badly he was sent to the minors. The 1B was very streaky.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 10:07 PM Post
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rickh150 said:
Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.


Then again, without Moose and Granderson, the only lefties are Shaw, Thames, and Yelich, right? I'll backtrack on this one.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 10:25 PM Post
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DHonks said:
rickh150 said:
Gotta believe that they are looking for a righty bat.


do tell.

we have a LF, CF, SS, 1b, and C that are RH, and our park favors LH hitters. I'd like another lefty if possible, especially since most pitchers are righty.


I think the need for a RH bat stems from the rotation the Cubs throw at them. Certainly with Shaw at 3rd and Murphy at 2B, they'd have Perez in the lineup at one of those spots against a LH pitcher, but he's not the threat against LHP that either Shaw or Murphy are vs. RHP.

A guy nobody's mentioned who admittedly is coming off a bad year is Yangervis Solarte, who was non-tendered by Blue Jays. He can play both 2B and 3B and he's got some pop from both sides. They could sign him and say Dietrich and have plenty of options for Counsell to maneuver around. I liked Solarte a lot when he was in SD. He's terrorized the Brewers with 8 HR in 84 lifetime AB's and a 1.035 OPS with almost all of that damage coming at Miller Park where he has a 1.167 career OPS. Seems like the perfect guy to replace Thames on the roster. He doesn't strike out as much as Thames and can be used all around the infield including giving Aguilar a rest on occasion at 1B. An added plus is he'd fit in with the other Venezuelans on the roster.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 12, 2018, 11:45 PM Post
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I'd like either Brian Dozier or Ian Kinsler on a one year deal.

I could live with Daniel Murphy on a one year deal if David Stearns personally visited me and convinced me that their positioning metrics would turn him into a non-terrible defender at second.

I'm not interested in any 2B's on a two (or more) year deal.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 5:19 AM Post
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502 to Right said:
I'd like either Brian Dozier or Ian Kinsler on a one year deal.

I could live with Daniel Murphy on a one year deal if David Stearns personally visited me and convinced me that their positioning metrics would turn him into a non-terrible defender at second.

I'm not interested in any 2B's on a two (or more) year deal.


I'd be fine with a not-old quality versatile 2B on a multi-year deal. Like Marwin Gonzalez. Not sure if anybody else fits the bill.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 5:33 AM Post
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With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 6:42 AM Post
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Oxy said:
With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.

I agree in that I also think the ultimate play will be to find the cheapest serviceable option. Daniel Descalso for instance could likely be signed on a one year deal for around $2 million. In the past two seasons he has played every position across the infield, he has played in the outfield, and he has even pitched. You aren’t likely going to want him hitting higher than 7th in the lineup, but he is a left-handed bat that will likely give better overall production than Saladino and much better on-base skills than Perez.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 7:10 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
Oxy said:
With the depth of the FA pool and our lack of need for a long term solution, I fully expect us to sit this one out until March at the earliest, and then snag somebody for a cheap 1 year deal. Normally, I'd find this weak, but I really don't have a strong preference between LeMahieu, Murphy, Dozier, Kinsler, Gonzalez, Lowrie, Cabrera-- heck, even a Walker, Harrison, Flores, Descalso, or Dietrich would be serviceable and have some sort of upside.

I'm sure that one of these guys is going to have a great year next year, and if the front office is confident they know which one, by all means I hope they target them and offer them a decent contract. If not, wait it out.

I agree in that I also think the ultimate play will be to find the cheapest serviceable option. Daniel Descalso for instance could likely be signed on a one year deal for around $2 million. In the past two seasons he has played every position across the infield, he has played in the outfield, and he has even pitched. You aren’t likely going to want him hitting higher than 7th in the lineup, but he is a left-handed bat that will likely give better overall production than Saladino and much better on-base skills than Perez.


Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? This team is a World Series contender right now, and with the improvements the other teams in the NL Central have made so far, it's shaping up to be a close race, and every game is important. I don't want to see another "warm body" signed just because they need a guy to throw out there at 2B. I mean, if we are going to throw a short-term deal at a guy like Descalso, we might as well just hand the job to Saladino and chalk up the 2B spot as an easy out at the back of the lineup. With so many solid bats available at the 2B spot, I think it would be prudent to grab one and maybe pay a little more for it.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 7:25 AM Post
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I think it all depends on what their likely timeline and overall plan is for Keston Hiura. I am not sure spending between $20-$30 million on a multi-year deal for a second baseman makes sense if they believe Hiura can be a regular in the major leagues at some point this season. I guess the caveat I should have added is that if they stick with the serviceable option to fill 2B at the start of the season they really need to add some offense from the catcher position (and maybe even a solid outfield acquisition).

Don’t get me wrong, if they can sign Daniel Murphy or D.J. LeMahieu to a two year deal for a total commitment of less than $18 million, then great.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 7:48 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:

Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? This team is a World Series contender right now, and with the improvements the other teams in the NL Central have made so far, it's shaping up to be a close race, and every game is important. I don't want to see another "warm body" signed just because they need a guy to throw out there at 2B. I mean, if we are going to throw a short-term deal at a guy like Descalso, we might as well just hand the job to Saladino and chalk up the 2B spot as an easy out at the back of the lineup. With so many solid bats available at the 2B spot, I think it would be prudent to grab one and maybe pay a little more for it.


"Cheapest serviceable option" is kind of a negative way to put it. It's more that the guys we'd spend more on are not highly likely to significantly outperform the cheaper guy. That's where I'm at, anyway. As I said, if the FO sees it differently and targets a guy they are confident in, great--I hope they go sign him and he does even better than expected.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: December 13, 2018, 7:50 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:

Aren't we past finding the "cheapest serviceable option" though? ......


Not in this instance. If you save money on 2B, then you have that money for midseason acquistions or even picking up a new catcher or pitcher now.

And the position to save at is 2B, as Hiura is in the wings and will come up when he is conservatively can save us a year of control. Perez can play there if needed, especially if we pick up a lefty bat. And if Hiura isn't an improvement due to injury or performance, 2B isn't that hard to usually find a guy to trade for.


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