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2B/3B Options

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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:00 PM Post
Posts: 480
Josh Harrison would be like adding another Hernan Perez. There’s already quantity at 2B-just go get a quality 2B. Someone who’d actually be an upgrade to the current roster (ie: not Harrison)


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:01 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
If you go with a platoon and they stink, it will put a lot more pressure on Stearns and Co to rush Hiura. If they find a decent one year guy, it will allow that process to play itself out on its own. Either Hiura takes and forces his way up or he spends a year in AAA getting better. Very risky in more ways than one with going with just Perez/Cory.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:04 PM Post
Posts: 2668
Humans Need Water said:
MNBrew said:
If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

*No pressure* doesn't exist when you're on a WS caliber team and this team is built to for that 2019-2021. Every player is different intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. You don't treat them all in the same manner. Hiura is an intelligent and poised individual with a very professional approach. No stage is too big for him.

And Hiura being called up won't have anything to do with his slash line. It'll be how good are his PAs - how well and consistent is his contact - how is he performing in the field.

I worded that poorly and already understand well what you felt compelled to explain. Restating:

I'd rather see the Brewers bring in someone else respectable/proven, leave Perez & Spangenberg (probably) as the two reserve IFs, and NOT force-feed Hiura to the bigs in May if he's not ready yet (whatever the organization deems "not ready yet" means) just because that presumably would be past the Super-Two cutoff and have it come down to "Help us, Keston Hiura. You're our only hope."

In other words, hopefully Hiura will be up when he's ready -- and hopefully raking big-time and therefore for good -- and not just because the Super-Two deadline has likely past. If he's ready by late May, then great. If not, I wouldn't want to see the Brewers bring him up because everyone else stunk and they felt he was the only remaining option, Hiura's developmental needs notwithstanding.

Hiura's definitely the Brewers' best hitting prospect since Braun came up. But it's no given that once he's up, he'll never go back down (well, hopefully he's up for good, but no guarantees). His performance would dictate if he stays in MIL.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:08 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
MNBrew said:
Humans Need Water said:
MNBrew said:
If Hiura is a potentially elite hitter, you do what's best for his long-term development with NO pressure to perform at the MLB level. You don't throw him into a pennant race or prolonged MLB stint if it stands to be detrimental.

In other words, you don't count on him for 2019 at all. If he forces himself into the picture, then that's a great position for the Brewers to be in.

*No pressure* doesn't exist when you're on a WS caliber team and this team is built to for that 2019-2021. Every player is different intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. You don't treat them all in the same manner. Hiura is an intelligent and poised individual with a very professional approach. No stage is too big for him.

And Hiura being called up won't have anything to do with his slash line. It'll be how good are his PAs - how well and consistent is his contact - how is he performing in the field.

I worded that poorly and already understand well what you felt compelled to explain. Restating:

I'd rather see the Brewers bring in someone else respectable/proven, leave Perez & Spangenberg (probably) as the two reserve IFs, and NOT force-feed Hiura to the bigs in May if he's not ready yet (whatever the organization deems "not ready yet" means) just because that presumably would be past the Super-Two cutoff and have it come down to "Help us, Keston Hiura. You're our only hope."

In other words, hopefully Hiura will be up when he's ready -- and hopefully raking big-time and therefore for good -- and not just because the Super-Two deadline has likely past. If he's ready by late May, then great. If not, I wouldn't want to see the Brewers bring him up because everyone else stunk and they felt he was the only remaining option, Hiura's developmental needs notwithstanding.

Hiura's definitely the Brewers' best hitting prospect since Braun came up. But it's no given that once he's up, he'll never go back down (hopefully, but no guarantees). His performance would dictate if he stays in MIL.

Then, yes, I agree!


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:21 PM Post
Posts: 579
JohnBriggs12 said:
Bnowell4evr said:
I'm intrigued by Wilmer Flores. He's young, doesn't strike out much, versatile, crushes lefties and won't cost much.

He would also fit nicely as Shaws platoon partner if Keston tears the cover off the ball.


Eh, he doesn't crush lefties. At least he didn't in 2018. He posted just a .610 OPS against LHP last year. Perez on the other hand is coming off his best year facing LHP, hitting .277/.304/.479 in 125 PA last year against lefties.

I just don't get the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Perez is a good heads up player. He might hit better playing primarily one position but he's a respectable .263 hitter with a .404 slugging percentage in a Brewer uniform. With the potential impact guys off the market, I'm fine with Perez with occasional starts by Spangenberg as the alternative until Hiura.


In 2018, Flores had some weird reverse platoon stats going on with an .804 OPS against RHP and only a .604 OPS against LHP. However, he slugged .710 and .553 against LHP in 2016/2017 and has slugged .471 against LHP in his career. His reverse platoon in 2018 and his past history against LHP is what gives me hope that a breakout might be coming. I've never seen anything from Hernan Perez that gives me hope that he can handle RHP. That is the reason behind the "anybody but Perez" thinking. Even if we signed someone like Wilmer Flores, that doesn't mean that Hernan's role on the team would change. Travis Shaw is a complete liability against lefties and it would greatly benefit the team if Hernan picked up those AB's. If we go with a 13 man pitching staff, that leaves 4 spots on the bench. Perez is our only RH bat besides a catcher so one of Spangeberg/Gamel (LH bat with an option) would be the odd man out unless we moved Thames.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:33 PM Post
Posts: 8385
Brew4U said:
If you go with a platoon and they stink, it will put a lot more pressure on Stearns and Co to rush Hiura. If they find a decent one year guy, it will allow that process to play itself out on its own. Either Hiura takes and forces his way up or he spends a year in AAA getting better. Very risky in more ways than one with going with just Perez/Cory.


First, they're not going to rush Hiura no matter what. Stearns and CC have both talked about this in the past, they won't bring up a player until they are "ready." That's not just numbers, but if they feel the player is mature enough, etc.

That said, I see your point if the platoon fails then what? Well, same thing could happen with almost all the names people are throwing out there. And if you look at their numbers, they've both been pretty consistent if used in a strict platoon. Anything can happen, but hard to see that platoon hitting under .700 as a floor, and the ceiling is .800+


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:35 PM Post
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Count me among the (very) few here who like the idea of Josh Harrison on this team. I think he could put up solid numbers (.260-.270 average, .700-.725 OPS) in Miller Park and play a steady 2B on defense. If Keston proves ready for a promotion mid-year, Harrison doesn't strike me as the type who is going to sulk, and I think he'd be energized playing for a title contender. Plus, he is not a heavy K guy, so that would be a nice change of pace after watching Villar and Schoop flail away at that spot most of last year.

My first choice would be Marwin Gonzalez, followed closely by Moose on a 2-year deal, but I wouldn't mind Harrison at all. He's a veteran who is well respected in the league and has always played the game the right way. He would bring a dose of energy to the team as well.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:43 PM Post
Posts: 4363
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Count me among the (very) few here who like the idea of Josh Harrison on this team. I think he could put up solid numbers (.260-.270 average, .700-.725 OPS) in Miller Park and play a steady 2B on defense. If Keston proves ready for a promotion mid-year, Harrison doesn't strike me as the type who is going to sulk, and I think he'd be energized playing for a title contender. Plus, he is not a heavy K guy, so that would be a nice change of pace after watching Villar and Schoop flail away at that spot most of last year.

My first choice would be Marwin Gonzalez, followed closely by Moose on a 2-year deal, but I wouldn't mind Harrison at all. He's a veteran who is well respected in the league and has always played the game the right way. He would bring a dose of energy to the team as well.


I do like that Harrison can also play 3B...not that it would be hard platoons, but adding Harrison gives the Brewers a ton of flexibility playing righty/lefty matchups and being a versatile bench option - particularly if Hiura sets the world on fire in AAA and fully deserves to be in Milwaukee later this season. Plus, I think he can easily be signeed to a 1 year deal, while Marwin is going to probably be a 3-4 year contract.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 5:03 PM Post
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Great points by Joey Meyer Bombs and Fear the Chorizo!

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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 5:05 PM Post
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I'm not so sure Marwin is going to get a huge payday when more consistent guys like Lowrie/LeMahieu have settled for 2-year deals and questionable playing time.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 5:12 PM Post
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SRB said:
I'm not so sure Marwin is going to get a huge payday when more consistent guys like Lowrie/LeMahieu have settled for 2-year deals and questionable playing time.


That's my hope. Marwin is young enough, too, to be a core guy for the team's full window. I wouldn't have any problem signing him to a 3-4 year contract, provided the per year average is palatable.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 10:54 PM Post
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If they wanted a guy like Harrison, wouldn't they have just held on to Schoop?


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 11, 2019, 10:56 PM Post
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NYChez said:
If they wanted a guy like Harrison, wouldn't they have just held on to Schoop?


Big difference between $4-5 million and $10 million. Also, Schoop was a K machine last year, and Harrison rarely Ks.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 1:08 AM Post
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I doubt the Brewers pony up the money for Grandal if the decision to non-tender Schoop isn't made, either.

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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 2:25 AM Post
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RollieTime said:
Danny Valencia is a solid option to platoon with Shaw and should only cost a couple million. He is a fantastic hitter against lefties.

I am copying a comment RollieTime made in the 2019 Lineup thread in the Major League forum.

He is correct that Danny Valencia could likely be signed for a small financial commitment. I think Valencia could actually be a better offensive upgrade than any of the realistic 2B options remaining. Valencia mashes left-handed pitching.

Valencia’s wRC+ versus LHP the last few seasons:

2014: 135 wRC+
2015: 128 wRC+
2016: 153 wRC+
2017: 119 wRC+
2018: 132 wRC+

Travis Shaw is awful against LHP (66 wRC+ last year). If Valencia was available to bat against LHP he would project as one of the Brewers top four hitters (against LHP). With the Cubs being so lefty heavy Valencia could certainly add another solid bat versus the Northsiders. It would also take the pressure off needing to make a splash at 2B, and especially if the team believed that Keston Hiura could take over the 2B job by June.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 7:26 AM Post
Posts: 37
Isn't he (Valencia) a club house cancer though? I believe he has gotten into multiple fights with team mates and even put Billy Butler in the hospital with a concussion. I think he is known to be a hot head and not much fun to be around...no thanks.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 7:46 AM Post
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Interesting, I didn't know about the Valencia/Butler incident. Here's an article on it:

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/articl ... 177957.php

I think I would have punched Butler in the head as well, lol.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 8:05 AM Post
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MrAllen said:
Interesting, I didn't know about the Valencia/Butler incident. Here's an article on it:

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/articl ... 177957.php

I think I would have punched Butler in the head as well, lol.

Huh, I vaguely remember that incident, but had completely forgotten the players involved. Okay, cross him off the list then.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 9:07 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
MrAllen said:
Interesting, I didn't know about the Valencia/Butler incident. Here's an article on it:

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/articl ... 177957.php

I think I would have punched Butler in the head as well, lol.

Huh, I vaguely remember that incident, but had completely forgotten the players involved. Okay, cross him off the list then.




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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 9:35 AM Post
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Good idea re Danny Valencia, Eye Black

Here are some more 2B/3B free agent/trade candidates who hit LHP well and could split time with Shaw at 3B or Spangenberg at 2B.

(2016-2018 splits)

Whit Merrifield, 138 wRC+ vs LHP (trade)
Danny Valencia, 135 wRC+ vs LHP
Jeff McNeil, 124 wRC+ vs LHP (trade)
Wilmer Flores, 120 wRC+ vs LHP
Asdrubal Cabrera, 117 wRC+ vs LHP
Starlin Castro, 110 wRC+ vs LHP (trade)
Josh Harrison, 109 wRC+ vs LHP

Of course, a few of those guys would be more expensive than others and would make Spangenberg obsolete, in which case Perez could give Shaw some days off at 3B.

Asdrubal Cabrera makes the most sense to me. Merrifield or McNeil might cost Hiura or a similar prospect haul. Valencia has the clubhouse issues mentioned above and limited versatility. Flores had weird reverse platoon numbers in 2018 and is questionable at 2B. Castro is expensive. Harrison has not been great recently and is not a huge upgrade over Perez.


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