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2B/3B Options

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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 10:27 AM Post
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Eye Black said:
MrAllen said:
Interesting, I didn't know about the Valencia/Butler incident. Here's an article on it:

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/articl ... 177957.php

I think I would have punched Butler in the head as well, lol.

Huh, I vaguely remember that incident, but had completely forgotten the players involved. Okay, cross him off the list then.

Cross him off the list? Billy Butler is a known dick and he thinks he can screw around with someone else's money. Then when Valencia tells him to mind his own business and Butler doubles down with his "*****" comment... I don't have a problem with how Valencia responded after Butler escalated the incident. I applaud Valencia for his control...

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 8:13 PM Post
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Location: Baltimore, MD
SRB's list a couple posts back inspired me to update the 3 year splits from the original post, removing players who have signed and adding in a couple that have been discussed recently. Note, players are listed in order of total wRC+ and FanGraph's Def stat listed should be taken with a huge grain of salt:

IN HOUSE
3YR OPS 3YR wRC+
Rnk Player (Age, Positions) vsRHP vsLHP Total vsRHP vsLHP Total 3YR Def
--------------------------- ----------------- ----------------- -------
Travis Shaw* (28, 3B/1B/2B) .850 / .668 / .807 120 / 74 / 110 7.5
Cory Spangenberg* (28, 3B/2B/LF) .757 / .512 / .696 105 / 37 / 88 -5.5
Hernan Perez (27, 3B/OF/2B/SS) .666 / .786 / .706 73 / 103 / 83 1.1
Orlando Arcia (24, SS) .662 / .658 / .661 70 / 75 / 72 7.9
Tyler Saladino (29, 3B/SS/2B) .623 / .641 / .629 67 / 77 / 70 5.8


2B FREE AGENTS
3YR OPS 3YR wRC+
Rnk Player (Age, Positions) vsRHP vsLHP Total vsRHP vsLHP Total 3YR Def
--------------------------- ----------------- ----------------- -------
Asdrubal Cabrera^ (32, 2B/SS/3B) .788 / .796 / .790 113 / 117 / 114 2.6
Derek Dietrich* (29, 2B/LF/3B) .782 / .701 / .767 114 / 94 / 110 -15.3
Marwin Gonzalez^ (29, 1B/LF/2B/SS/3B) .786 / .753 / .776 115 / 106 / 112 -13.5
Neil Walker^ (33, 1B/RF/2B/3B) .780 / .724 / .767 111 / 98 / 107 4.8
Josh Harrison (31, 2B/3B/OF) .694 / .786 / .715 85 / 109 / 91 3.6

3B FREE AGENTS
3YR OPS 3YR wRC+
Rnk Player (Age, Positions) vsRHP vsLHP Total vsRHP vsLHP Total 3YR Def
--------------------------- ----------------- ----------------- -------
Manny Machado (26, SS/3B) .841 / .891 / .855 121 / 136 / 125 19.0
Asdrubal Cabrera^ (32, 2B/SS/3B) .788 / .796 / .790 113 / 117 / 114 2.6
Marwin Gonzalez^ (29, 1B/LF/2B/SS/3B) .786 / .753 / .776 115 / 106 / 112 -13.5
Derek Dietrich* (29, 2B/LF/3B) .782 / .701 / .767 114 / 94 / 110 -15.3
Mike Moustakas* (30, 3B) .827 / .746 / .804 115 / 96 / 109 -0.4
Wilmer Flores (27, SS/3B/1B) .743 / .829 / .771 101 / 120 / 108 -11.5
Neil Walker^ (33, 1B/RF/2B/3B) .780 / .724 / .767 111 / 98 / 107 4.8
Danny Valencia (34, 1B/RF/3B) .699 / .867 / .751 90 / 135 / 104 -32.1
Jose Bautista (38, LF/RF/3B) .748 / .686 / .733 105 / 89 / 101 -25.6
Matt Davidson (28, 3B/1B) .691 / .823 / .726 84 / 124 / 95 -20.1
Josh Harrison (31, 2B/3B/OF) .694 / .786 / .715 85 / 109 / 91 3.6


Edit: Nice find SRB, added Davidson to the list!


Last edited by MrAllen on January 12, 2019, 8:58 PM, edited 3 times in total.

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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 8:32 PM Post
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Thanks for the list MrAllen! I also learned that Matt Davidson was non-tendered by the White Sox and is a free agent. He hits LHP quite well but is more of a 3B/1B with so-so defense.

Career splits:

vs RHP - 87 wRC+
vs LHP - 118 wRC+


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 8:36 PM Post
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Location: Baltimore, MD
The big thing that jumps out at me is the affirmation that a Spangenberg/Perez platoon does look pretty effective to begin the year with no further moves.

With that said, assuming there isn't a lot of money left to sign a bigger impact bat, Neil Walker would round out the offense pretty nicely. A righty Perez, lefty Spangenberg, and switch hitting Walker would give Counsell all sorts of flexibility to play with. Throw in Pina, Thames, and Gamel, and you've got a ton of depth and options coming off the bench.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 12, 2019, 9:33 PM Post
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I think DS is happy with the platoon unless he finds a guy to take a one year deal


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 5:34 AM Post
Posts: 125
Tampa needs a 1b they have the Ji man and newly inked Matt Davidson...and we have Thames on the cheap. Additional players may be added from our side...I was thinking out of options Houser.

David Robertson (.800OPS) would be a nice UT, 2B-40, SS-29, 3B-19, LF-4, DH-2, P-1, 1B-1
or since they also have several 2b ready to come up from their farm...
Joey Wendle, lefty bat (.789OPS) and current 2b starter and UT (2B-101, 3B-20, LF-16, SS-10, RF-1)
might be able to be had as well...on the cheap.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 7:15 AM Post
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MrAllen said:
The big thing that jumps out at me is the affirmation that a Spangenberg/Perez platoon does look pretty effective to begin the year with no further moves.

The biggest problem with penciling Hernán Pérez in as a platoon partner is it limits his positional flexibility to fill in at other spots (i.e. 3B or corner OF). For instance if Pérez is at 2B versus left-handed pitching, than you have Shaw anchoring 3B and facing lefties. If no other infielders are added I would guess that Tyler Saladino would play 2B with Hernán Pérez at 3B in this scenario. The problem is do you really want to rely on having Pérez, Saladino, and Arcia all in your lineup when facing LHPs? IMO they either need to believe Hiura can have an impact by June, or they need to find someone that can thrive versus lefties.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 7:45 AM Post
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I'd like to note that Maurcio Dubon, our number 7 prospect, prior to his injury, was posting a .922 OPS for the Sky Sox in 2018. He was hitting. 348 away from home, albeit with less power, but not all of his numbers were Colorado inflated.

In 2016 for the Red Sox Portland AA club he posted an OPS over .900 in 269 PAs. Had a down year in Biloxi in 2017 but still contributed with good defense and 38 SBs. He's a true middle infielder that can either play 2nd every day or easily slide over and fill in for Arcia.

Some feel Dubon is overrated here, I think the opposite is true -- I think he's quite overlooked. By no means am I saying, "This guy is our 2B of the future." But if we are talking about a Spangenberg/Perez platoon at 2nd, Dubon absolutely belongs in the conversation as well.

My guess is that he starts the year at San Antonio, but if given an over/under of 100 PAs for him at the MLB level in 2019, I'll take the over.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 9:44 AM Post
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I'm a big fan of Dubon but you're still penciling in a prospect to have a good first MLB season to rely on him.

In my ideal world the roster near the end of these season would have Hiura as the everyday 2B, Dubon as the backup SS/utility guy, and an offense-first bench infielder like Cabrera.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 10:40 AM Post
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I think the plan is Moose, Cabrera or upgrade somewhere else based on the available options. Hiura is the play at second and I have little doubt about that at this point.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 4:30 PM Post
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I'd like to see the Brewers trade for Cesar Hernandez. Switch hitter, plays 2B/3B/SS, free agent in 2021, down year in 2018.

Put up a wRC+ as a lefty vs righty of 112 in 2017(3.1 bWAR) and 106 in 2016(3.2 bWAR)

Phillies have Scott Kingery waiting in the wings and Cesar will start to get expensive the next 2 years. With his versatility, ability to get on base, switch hitting abilities, seems like a guy Stearns would want to target. Can man 2B until Keston comes up and can rotate on the infield where needed.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 13, 2019, 5:58 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee
SRB said:
I'm a big fan of Dubon but you're still penciling in a prospect to have a good first MLB season to rely on him.

In my ideal world the roster near the end of these season would have Hiura as the everyday 2B, Dubon as the backup SS/utility guy, and an offense-first bench infielder like Cabrera.

The Brewers 2b spot last year hit 227/290/668 (and that's including Shaw playing 2b who had a 309 OBP and 805 OPS there in 140 PA). Villar was our best 2b last year (not counting Shaw) hitting 261/315/693. Dubon just needs to match that to be an upgrade from the position overall last year. SS was even worse in OBP/OPS and Dubon plays there as well. It's absolutely realistic to think Dubon will outproduce our 2018 2b. It also helps that he won't have a high K rate like the others as he's typically around 14-15% - so high contact and high BA spray hitter.

He also hits both righties and lefties well and that's critical as you don't have to play matchups like you do with Perez and Spangenberg. So once Dubon is up, which could be by May if he has another April like last year, and if Stearns acquires a 2b who hits both sides similarly/well (Harrison, Cabrera, Marwin) we're in a much better position at the back-end of games.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 6:28 AM Post
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The remaining 2B free agents in the list don't interest me, I'd prefer to go with our existing players and call up Hiura after he has played 5-6 weeks in AAA to be the Brewers 2B. It's similar to what the Brewers did with another top hitting prospect named Braun, Braun played 34 games in AAA before being called and subsequently won the NL rookie of the year.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 7:29 AM Post
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I would be all for adding Cabrera to this team. I'm with Harrison too. I don't see Gonzalez as realistic.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 12:22 PM Post
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This is sorta rehashing stuff already mentioned in this thread and I've already stated a case for standing pat with the current group of infielders in the organization. But, I do find myself coming back to Marwin Gonzalez now that Lowrie and LaMahieu have signed. Those contracts provide a solid benchmark for what we can expect Gonzalez to get. We haven't seen any infielder get more than a 2 year deal and I don't expect Gonzalez to be the exception.

Due to the positional versatility he provides he doesn't block a promotion of Hiura (or Dubon I suppose) and could provide somewhat of a softish platoon with Shaw if Shaw struggles vs LHP again in 2019. Braun is probably only good for about 400-450 PAs for the next two years so there is a lot of playing time available in the corner OF as well.

Gonzalez also gives the Brewers the option of non-tendering or trading Perez next year making him a smaller net addition to the payroll for 2020. I don't necessarily know if the Brewers have it in the budget to add an infielder at this price, but he does seem to solve many of the concerns I have about the Brewers roster over the next two seasons. It's be eerily quiet on rumor front for him.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 12:34 PM Post
Posts: 3820
Location: New Berlin, WI
I'm going to nitpick those numbers above. In what universe is Moustakas a negative value defender? Also, in what universe is Diedrich a 2b?...that's like calling Aguilar a 3b.

I like Cabrera for cheap, I also like Flores for cheap...if possible. I don't hate the idea of Walker/Harrison if other options don't work out or their market collapses to the point of minor league deals.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 12:59 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Also, in what universe is Diedrich a 2b?...that's like calling Aguilar a 3b.



I am going to guess Earth where he has 192 career appearances at second base versus Aguilar having 7 career appearances at third.


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Online  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 1:15 PM Post
Posts: 3820
Location: New Berlin, WI
wallus said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Also, in what universe is Diedrich a 2b?...that's like calling Aguilar a 3b.



I am going to guess Earth where he has 192 career appearances at second base versus Aguilar having 7 career appearances at third.


And Braun is a 3rd baseman...right? My point is Dietrich is not a 2b and shouldn't be considered one. He's an awful defender really everywhere, but especially 2b. He also hasn't seen significant action at 2b in a couple years.

Also Earth isn't a universe last I checked...........


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 1:26 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
wallus said:

I am going to guess Earth where he has 192 career appearances at second base versus Aguilar having 7 career appearances at third.


And Braun is a 3rd baseman...right? My point is Dietrich is not a 2b and shouldn't be considered one. He's an awful defender really everywhere, but especially 2b. He also hasn't seen significant action at 2b in a couple years.



He has had appearances at 2nd base every year he has been in the majors (starting in 2013) including a high of 75 all the way back in 2016. He mainly played third base in 2017 which is still infield at least. Ironically, according to baseball reference, he graded out much worse as an outfielder than he did as an infielder. In fact, in 2016, he was 0.1, which he played the most 2nd base. He would definitely be a bat first player for the Brewers. Check out his away splits and you can see why people are interested in him.

Ryan Braun last played 3rd base in 2007 so a pretty poor example there but good job being condescending.


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Offline  Re: 2B/3B Options
Posted: January 14, 2019, 1:45 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
wallus said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Also, in what universe is Diedrich a 2b?...that's like calling Aguilar a 3b.



I am going to guess Earth where he has 192 career appearances at second base versus Aguilar having 7 career appearances at third.


And Braun is a 3rd baseman...right? My point is Dietrich is not a 2b and shouldn't be considered one. He's an awful defender really everywhere, but especially 2b. He also hasn't seen significant action at 2b in a couple years.


Cabrera is a horrid defender at 2B, while Flores can be described as simply bad. It seems odd to me to rule out Dietrich because of his defense, while advocating for two guys that are also poor in that area.

I am under the assumption that when Passan tweeted that the Brewers were in deep negotiations on a player that could upgrade 2B/3B, he was talking about Lowrie. I think the Mets upped their offer at the last minute, and that's the one he took. We've seen a run on 2B signings within the last week, which leaves the Brewers with much fewer options now. Gonzalez is still there if they want an all-around solid player. Harrison and Forsythe if they want solid fielders who may not provide a ton of offensive value. Dietrich, Cabrera, Neil Walker or Flores if they want a decent bat who would provide nothing more than a warm body on defense, or an old fart like Brandon Phillips looking to play out the string. Signing Phillips would remind me of the unheralded 1991 signing of Willie Randolph.

Of course, there is always the "Sign Moose and play Shaw at 2B" option. I kinda think that's what they'll go with at this point. That lineup will mash righties, but lefties will make it look silly.


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