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Corey Kluber available?

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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#41

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:23 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
A package of Ray, Santana, Thames and Knebel for Kluber and Kipnis makes some sense.


For who? Just the Brewers? They would have to be mighty high on Ray and mighty high on Santana. The former no one was high on last offseason before he stunk up the joint.


Got a source on that? Because it would see to me that no one has any idea what type of value Stearns put on Santana in a trade. Just because no one met that price doesn't mean there's no value there. I don't understand that narrative.

Also taking on Kipnis' deal lessens the value going back to the Indians.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#42

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:25 PM Post
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If you can get Kluber while keeping Hiura and Burnes, you do it now.

If you can get him while keeping Peralta and Woodruff too as some are suggesting (but I doubt is realistic), you do it yesterday.

I am not Shea Vucinich


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#43

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:30 PM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
https://twitter.com/Haudricourt/status/1072237575044120576

Indians needs this offseason are OF, OF, RP, OF, C, 1B and more OF. A package of Ray, Santana, Thames and Knebel for Kluber and Kipnis makes some sense.


That's a weird trade. From a salary standpoint, the Brewers pieces are owed a combined $13.5M with arbitration estimates. Cleveland's players are owed $31.5M. Kluber has options that will certainly be picked up, while Kipnis has a $2.5M buyout on his option that will certainly be declined. Knebel and Santana are under team control through 2021, while Thames has an affordable option with a $1M buyout. I feel like the Brewers need salary relief, we are also giving up quite a bit of talent to take on a bad contract in Kipnis.

From a fit standpoint, we'd basically be a 1 stop shop for the Indians needs...for the most part. We'd also have a temporary 2b that we could shift to a LH 4th OF role when Hiura comes up. We would in this case, have to add relief help...but we keep our pitching talent intact.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#44

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:30 PM Post
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BuckyBrewer61 said:
If you can get Kluber while keeping Hiura and Burnes, you do it now.

If you can get him while keeping Peralta and Woodruff too as some are suggesting (but I doubt is realistic), you do it yesterday.


Yeah I think this is the most realistic view of things. Which is why we won't be getting Kluber without including any of those 4.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#45

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:31 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Got a source on that? Because it would see to me that no one has any idea what type of value Stearns put on Santana in a trade. Just because no one met that price doesn't mean there's no value there. I don't understand that narrative.


If GMs didn't want to meet the price on Santana when he was coming off of a season where he posted 2.9 WAR & a 126 OPS+, what kind of price do you think they will pay to acquire him after 1.0 WAR & a 97 OPS+ with a two month demotion to AAA?


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#46

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:32 PM Post
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No way we get Kluber without Hiura, Burnes or Peralta. I would be happy if we got him with just giving up one of those guys.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#47

Posted: December 10, 2018, 3:50 PM Post
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Morosi is going on live shortly on MLB network to talk Kluber FYI


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#48

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:07 PM Post
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Not specific to Kluber, but Haudricourt is in super salty mode on twitter right now responding to fans that want to see the Brewers add payroll. I understand his frustration and generally agree with him, but it's so much fun to see.

Tying it back to the thread, the very beginning of his twitter rampage started with a response to a guy upset that we aren't making more of a push for Kluber.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#49

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:10 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Not specific to Kluber, but Haudricourt is in super salty mode on twitter right now responding to fans that want to see the Brewers add payroll. I understand his frustration and generally agree with him, but it's so much fun to see.

Tying it back to the thread, the very beginning of his twitter rampage started with a response to a guy upset that we aren't making more of a push for Kluber.


I like when he gets salty with those idiots. Quality reading. Brewers Twitter is a goofy bunch of squirrels.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#50

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:24 PM Post
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I think the financials are being somewhat overstated as a potential road block. I believe the Brewers have budgeted money to spend on pitching when the time is right. I don't think they have a fixed salary threshold etched in stone.

With the last two years of Kluber's contract being team options subject to buyout the risk is significantly mitigated. Obviously you hope to get three great years from Kluber, but if something catastrophic occurs you can pay the $1 million buyout and rid yourself of the financial commitment. That is a good framework to start with for a club that can't afford to be sunk with multiple years of dead money.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#51

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:27 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Twitter is a goofy bunch of squirrels.


FIFY

I’m not sure which is nuttier - the Twitter masses, or people that respond to the Twitter masses as if they are truly a representative sample

I am not Shea Vucinich


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#52

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:31 PM Post
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Eye Black said:
I think the financials are being somewhat overstated as a potential road block. I believe the Brewers have budgeted money to spend on pitching when the time is right. I don't think they have a fixed salary threshold etched in stone.

With the last two years of Kluber's contract being team options subject to buyout the risk is significantly mitigated. Obviously you hope to get three great years from Kluber, but if something catastrophic occurs you can pay the $1 million buyout and rid yourself of the financial commitment. That is a good framework to start with for a club that can't afford to be sunk with multiple years of dead money.


Couldn't agree more. Was it 2 years ago that payroll was like $60 million? We definitely banked a ton of money that year. Also that new tv deal is going to help a lot, with the attendance we get...we could be a fringe middle of the pack payroll team.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#53

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:35 PM Post
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Kluber is the type of pitcher you consider making "untouchable" prospects or young pieces available for. I probably wouldn't be willing to do it but I understand if they pony up what it would take and wouldn't be disappointed.

I'd offer Ray, Santana, Peralta +minor league pieces. Idk if that would get it done.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#54

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:38 PM Post
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I feel like many of you are failing to consider Kluber's age or contract with comments. He's owed $52M over the next 3 years and turns 33 this year. Would the Brewers sign Kluber for $52M over 3 years? Absolutely. Should we give up top prospects for the right to pay age 33-35 of Kluber $52M? That's a significantly different question. I'd recommend noting his age and contract when considering what you might offer or not offer.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#55

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:43 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
I feel like many of you are failing to consider Kluber's age or contract with comments. He's owed $52M over the next 3 years and turns 33 this year. Would the Brewers sign Kluber for $52M over 3 years? Absolutely. Should we give up top prospects for the right to pay age 33-35 of Kluber $52M? That's a significantly different question. I'd recommend noting his age and contract when considering what you might offer or not offer.


Or maybe some of you are drastically overrating the value of Brewers players?


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#56

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:53 PM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
PDCBalla said:
Since 2014 his lowest WAR (according to fangraphs) is 5.1 with a high of 7.4 but you don't think we should give up anything for him besides our #2 prospect (who isn't rated in the top 100). You can't get a Cy Young caliber pitcher for multiple years (team controlled through 2021) without giving up something of value.


Top prospect lists are for fans. GMs could care less. Ray is a young (24) 5-tool OF who was a very high pick and is finally living up to that potential. Value is high.


Ray is not a 5 tool player. Below average hit tool and average defense tool.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#57

Posted: December 10, 2018, 4:58 PM Post
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I’d love to trade Ray while his year was reasonably good. Though his super low hit tool will make him very likely to fail at the MLB level. Let’s hope other teams ignore that. At best he is a worse version of Brinson so if you think Brinson is a bust you have to say Ray will be too.

Ray, Peralta, Santana, and Anderson but I doubt that gets it done.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#58

Posted: December 10, 2018, 5:02 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
I feel like many of you are failing to consider Kluber's age or contract with comments. He's owed $52M over the next 3 years and turns 33 this year. Would the Brewers sign Kluber for $52M over 3 years? Absolutely. Should we give up top prospects for the right to pay age 33-35 of Kluber $52M? That's a significantly different question. I'd recommend noting his age and contract when considering what you might offer or not offer.


Even with his age & contract Kluber ranked 12th on FanGraphs Top 50 Trade Value Series published at the 2018 All Star Break.

Nathan Eovaldi has posted 2.9 WAR the last three seasons & just got 4/68.

Kluber has posted 18 WAR the last three seasons. Sure he is older, but he'd be getting way more than 3/52 were he a free agent this offseason so there is plenty of surplus value on his deal.

He will require a significant haul & rightfully so.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#59

Posted: December 10, 2018, 5:04 PM Post
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Boomer5 said:
I’d love to trade Ray while his year was reasonably good. Though his super low hit tool will make him very likely to fail at the MLB level. Let’s hope other teams ignore that. At best he is a worse version of Brinson so if you think Brinson is a bust you have to say Ray will be too.

Ray, Peralta, Santana, and Anderson but I doubt that gets it done.


Ray actually made significant strides with his hit tool this year. He made mechanical adjustments allowing him to get to the inside pitch more consistently. It showed in his HR total. I think his contact rate is highly likely to improve when he nails down his mechanics and is simply thinking about results and not thinking about mechanics at the plate. I have to imagine that will be this year...it's a bit make or break for him.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#60

Posted: December 10, 2018, 5:05 PM Post
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Can you get Kluber without Huira or Burnes? Would it cost at least one? Or both?


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