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Corey Kluber available?

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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#81

Posted: December 26, 2018, 9:32 PM Post
Posts: 1135
Jkromb said:
I personally don’t see what everyone else sees with Hiura.. I don’t think he is that good personally.


I don't want to speak for everyone else, but i think it's mostly because he doesn't strike out(like most of the current crew), and he can hit for a high average. Nevermind, he probably won't hit more than 10-15 HR's ever at the major league level. He will probably get on base a lot, which is useful for sure, but that's about all it is...useful. If he doesn't hit for much power(which is likely), or ever drive in 100+ runs(consistently), then he's a good, not great prospect...which is what I think he is. Useful, yes, above average...yes. Elite?? I seriously doubt it, but that is what most here seem to think that's what he will be.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#82

Posted: December 26, 2018, 9:59 PM Post
Posts: 257
Brewcrewin07 said:
Jkromb said:
I personally don’t see what everyone else sees with Hiura.. I don’t think he is that good personally.


I don't want to speak for everyone else, but i think it's mostly because he doesn't strike out(like most of the current crew), and he can hit for a high average. Nevermind, he probably won't hit more than 10-15 HR's ever at the major league level. He will probably get on base a lot, which is useful for sure, but that's about all it is...useful. If he doesn't hit for much power(which is likely), or ever drive in 100+ runs(consistently), then he's a good, not great prospect...which is what I think he is. Useful, yes, above average...yes. Elite?? I seriously doubt it, but that is what most here seem to think that's what he will be.

I agree with this. He’s going to hit but idk if he’ll ever be elite. Maybe left handed DJ Lemahieu without the GG defense? That has value but probably tops out in the 4 win area and settles in more in the 2-3 win annually range and not elite 6-7+ area that it seems some think.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#83

Posted: December 27, 2018, 12:01 AM Post
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Hiura is right handed and LeMahieu can't hit outside Coors, so if Hiura hits he'll be a much better hitter than LeMahieu.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#84

Posted: December 27, 2018, 12:06 AM Post
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CrewFanBrewMan69 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
Jkromb said:
I personally don’t see what everyone else sees with Hiura.. I don’t think he is that good personally.


I don't want to speak for everyone else, but i think it's mostly because he doesn't strike out(like most of the current crew), and he can hit for a high average. Nevermind, he probably won't hit more than 10-15 HR's ever at the major league level. He will probably get on base a lot, which is useful for sure, but that's about all it is...useful. If he doesn't hit for much power(which is likely), or ever drive in 100+ runs(consistently), then he's a good, not great prospect...which is what I think he is. Useful, yes, above average...yes. Elite?? I seriously doubt it, but that is what most here seem to think that's what he will be.

I agree with this. He’s going to hit but idk if he’ll ever be elite. Maybe left handed DJ Lemahieu without the GG defense? That has value but probably tops out in the 4 win area and settles in more in the 2-3 win annually range and not elite 6-7+ area that it seems some think.

Many scouts and analysts think he will be elite.

From Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel at Fangraphs.

This is an incredible hitter. He has lightning-quick hands that square up premium velocity and possesses a rare blend of power and bat control.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-32- ... e-brewers/

The guy is not perfect. He's streaky, and is a bit too aggressive at times. But his hit tool is exceptional. And the other thing that some scouts say is that there is a lot more power lurking in Hiura's profile.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#85

Posted: December 27, 2018, 2:27 AM Post
Posts: 64
Is there any way to build a package around Dubon, Ray, Peralta, Woodruff, and Zack Brown? This would be the ideal scenario as they get their ace that they most desperately need, but they also get to keep Hiura and Burnes. Idk if it’s possible, but that’s why I am asking.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#86

Posted: December 27, 2018, 3:02 AM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
markedman5 said:
https://twitter.com/byrobertmurray/status/1078079701204324352?s=21

The Brewers, like most teams, have interest in trading for Corey Kluber. But to this point, the asking price has been too high. Unless it comes down, it is unlikely they will be significant players for his services.



In other words, Stearns is scared...too freaking scared to give up some PROSPECTS that may or may not be good for a CY young winner..scared money don't make money. Meanwhile, the Cardinals, Cubs, and even the Reds are getting better and DS makes game changing acquistions of Corey Spangenberg and Ben Gamel...World Series winning moves for sure!


I mean, just within this calendar year Stearns has given up:

- His #1 prospect (Brinson)
- Two other MLB top 100/organizational top 5 types (Harrison, Diaz)
- 2 other top 15 organizational prospects (Medeiros, Phillips)
- 2 other top 30 organizational prospects (Yamamoto, KJ Harrison)

But, sure, I guess?

I just kind of assumed that after you were up in arms about not unloading Brinson for Sonny Gray, and Stearns ended up getting the next MVP for him instead, you would have stepped back, put a little more faith in Stearns and conceded that maybe he knows a little bit more about this than you or I. Clearly I was mistaken.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#87

Posted: December 27, 2018, 6:00 AM Post
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Jkromb said:
This is exactly what I have been saying. Stearns and co. are scared to make the big move that can set them far and above the other teams in this division.

I think they just trust and stick with their valuation on players.

If their mentality was to do whatever it takes to make a splash the Brewers would currently have José Quintana on the roster in place of Christian Yelich.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#88

Posted: December 27, 2018, 8:40 AM Post
Posts: 1947
Jkromb said:
Is there any way to build a package around Dubon, Ray, Peralta, Woodruff, and Zack Brown? This would be the ideal scenario as they get their ace that they most desperately need, but they also get to keep Hiura and Burnes. Idk if it’s possible, but that’s why I am asking.


I wouldn't trade 2/3 of Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta - and the Indians may have enough pitching at the majors that they wouldn't mind a mix with younger guys anyways.

I'd also try and hold on to Dubon, unless the Indians really value him and it made the deal a go.

I would go - Ray, Peralta/Woodruff, Z.Brown, Lemons. Three pitchers, four total prospects for Klubers age 33-35 years where he is paid $17M, $17.5M, $18M. I am not going to assume a QO at the end. If he was a free agent, he would probably be get a 3 year contract at $26M per year, right? So he is underpaid $8.5M a year? This has to be in the ballpark.

We can expand the trade to include more prospects if they value Thames at all as a salary dump from our end.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#89

Posted: January 15, 2019, 9:01 AM Post
Posts: 4416
Location: New Berlin, WI
https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/1 ... 8696478720

Why do GM's think they'd be able to trade for a stud like Kluber and then turn around and flip him right away? Wouldn't a team that wanted Kluber simply trade for him directly, rather than let the Padres get him and pay the Padres more so they can "profit". Or work out a 3 team deal? There is some serious arrogance involved in any GM that thinks they are THAT much better at making deals than the rest of the league.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#90

Posted: January 15, 2019, 11:07 AM Post
Posts: 3673
Hiura's ceiling, in my opinion, is a 2B Right Hand hitting version of Wade Boggs. HOF potential

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#91

Posted: January 15, 2019, 11:17 AM Post
Posts: 873
Don't think it has to do with arrogance, it'd simply be a 3-team trade scenario (as Rosenthal mentions at one point) in order to match up better. Perhaps the mystery team don't have, or aren't willing to give up, players that the Indians need, while the Padres have what they're looking for? It's not a matter of profiting for the Padres either I don't think, if the team with the 3B want a SP then they don't have anything to give up at the moment.

A team like the Yankees would probably be a lot more interested in Kluber than they would anyone on the Padres, while if they also sign Machado (Seems unlikely right now, but who knows) then Andujar would be available, perhaps the 3B the Padres need.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#92

Posted: January 15, 2019, 11:32 AM Post
Posts: 1947
Lathund said:
Don't think it has to do with arrogance, it'd simply be a 3-team trade scenario (as Rosenthal mentions at one point) in order to match up better. Perhaps the mystery team don't have, or aren't willing to give up, players that the Indians need, while the Padres have what they're looking for? It's not a matter of profiting for the Padres either I don't think, if the team with the 3B want a SP then they don't have anything to give up at the moment.

A team like the Yankees would probably be a lot more interested in Kluber than they would anyone on the Padres, while if they also sign Machado (Seems unlikely right now, but who knows) then Andujar would be available, perhaps the 3B the Padres need.


Hypothetical -
Would the Indians put any protections on the trade that Kluber doesn't come back to the Central Division? There is probably little chance the Indians would trade Kluber to the White Sox (especially if they got Machado) directly. So if the Padres traded for him and sent him to the White Sox a few days later, would seem weird, right?


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#93

Posted: January 15, 2019, 11:39 AM Post
Posts: 4117
Location: Madison, WI
3and2Fastball said:
Hiura's ceiling, in my opinion, is a 2B Right Hand hitting version of Wade Boggs. HOF potential


Well I'd think the dream would be Altuve. PResumably without as many SBs. Hit in the 320-340 area with an obp approaching 400. 15-25 HRs.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#94

Posted: January 15, 2019, 3:44 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Brewcrewin07 said:
Jkromb said:
I personally don’t see what everyone else sees with Hiura.. I don’t think he is that good personally.


I don't want to speak for everyone else, but i think it's mostly because he doesn't strike out(like most of the current crew), and he can hit for a high average. Nevermind, he probably won't hit more than 10-15 HR's ever at the major league level. He will probably get on base a lot, which is useful for sure, but that's about all it is...useful. If he doesn't hit for much power(which is likely), or ever drive in 100+ runs(consistently), then he's a good, not great prospect...which is what I think he is. Useful, yes, above average...yes. Elite?? I seriously doubt it, but that is what most here seem to think that's what he will be.

Guys that hit for a high BA/OBP don't grow on trees and at the 2b spot they're even more scarce. Second, Hiura will hit 15HR at minimum, not maximum. He hit 13 in 123 games between A+/AA (both pitchers parks) then hit 5HR in 23 games in AZFL. He's more 20-30HR gap and scouts are saying he has a lot of untapped power. Dude has elite bat speed and the ability to consistently barrel up the ball. And driving in 100 runs is irrelevant and also depends on various factors. He had 33rbi in 42 games between rookie/A and just had 33rbi in 23 games in AZFL too. Altuve has never done it and he's driven in more than 81 *once*...same goes for Pedroia and was over 84 *once*. Bregman just got 103 and needed 51 doubles/31HR. Machado, Bryant and Harper each have done it once. 3 of Trout's 7yrs he's been 83 or lower.

You're not just giving up 3 great prospects for Kluber you're also paying him 17.5M annually for ages 33-35 so that's a big trade and it has to make sense with how this team is being constructed over the next 2-3yrs as well as who those prospects are, how close they are, how do they fit with what Stearns is doing. etc. They want Hiura to lead the package, which they absolutely should. But we're not giving up 6yrs 4mo of a dude with an elite hit tool who'll be ready by June. There's minimal risk with a player like Hiura.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#95

Posted: January 15, 2019, 3:50 PM Post
Posts: 10757
I think I will see pigs fly before we add another $15mil salary to the books next year.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#96

Posted: January 15, 2019, 4:59 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/1085182458696478720

Why do GM's think they'd be able to trade for a stud like Kluber and then turn around and flip him right away? Wouldn't a team that wanted Kluber simply trade for him directly, rather than let the Padres get him and pay the Padres more so they can "profit". Or work out a 3 team deal? There is some serious arrogance involved in any GM that thinks they are THAT much better at making deals than the rest of the league.

I don't get the arrogance remark.

It's just GMs working a deal. They are simply being creative - good for them. Reds want Kluber, but they don't have the player(s) that Indians need. SD has player(s) Cleveland likes, and Cincy has a player(s) the Padres like. It's as simple as that. Just enterprising GMs working a third team into the mix because the pieces in the puzzle just don't match up.

Seems pretty simple to me.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#97

Posted: January 15, 2019, 6:23 PM Post
Posts: 4416
Location: New Berlin, WI
What a few of you are describing is basically a 3 team deal, which isn't overly unusual and would make sense to me. When i hear them talking about flipping, i don't see it as simply a 3 team deal but the Padres making a series of trades solely to add value, like flipping a house. Lets say kluber is worth 10, i get the impression the Padres want to try to pay a value of 9 ffor kluber and then trade him for a value of 11. As if the Padres are going to add value to their organization by playing middleman in a trade.


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#98

Posted: January 15, 2019, 6:30 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
What a few of you are describing is basically a 3 team deal, which isn't overly unusual and would make sense to me. When i hear them talking about flipping, i don't see it as simply a 3 team deal but the Padres making a series of trades solely to add value, like flipping a house. Lets say kluber is worth 10, i get the impression the Padres want to try to pay a value of 9 ffor kluber and then trade him for a value of 11. As if the Padres are going to add value to their organization by playing middleman in a trade.

Ahh, I gotcha.

Personally, I don't see that. But that's just me. I just see three GMs trying to make something work, but maybe not. It wouldn't be the first time another GM tried to scam something from another GM. Like Billy Beane in "Moneyball" trying to work the Red Sox and another team so he can basically get Kevin Youkilis for free.


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Online  Re: Corey Kluber available?
#99

Posted: January 16, 2019, 1:23 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
This is exactly what I have been saying. Stearns and co. are scared to make the big move that can set them far and above the other teams in this division.


Do you still feel this way?


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Offline  Re: Corey Kluber available?
Posted: January 16, 2019, 6:08 PM Post
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Jkromb said:
Is there any way to build a package around Dubon, Ray, Peralta, Woodruff, and Zack Brown? This would be the ideal scenario as they get their ace that they most desperately need, but they also get to keep Hiura and Burnes. Idk if it’s possible, but that’s why I am asking.


I think Stearns is going to wait until at least June in order to see what he's got in all of the players listed above. There is a ton of talent and potential in all of those names, and also a ton of question marks and short track records. Some of those guys could blossom into superstars who we'd have under control for 6 years, half of those years at the league minimum. We aren't in a desperate need of pitching right now (as long as we have those guys listed above) and can even absorb an injury or two. If you make a big trade for Kluber and then Kluber gets hurt you're stuck with nothing, and little depth to fill in for that injury. We'll know a lot more by the end of June.


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