LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 75 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

Seattle Mariners

Author Message
Offline  Seattle Mariners
#1

Posted: November 06, 2018, 11:35 AM Post
Posts: 468
Sounds like the Mariners are in sell mode.

Heyman indicates the Mariners intend to hold onto Haniger, Diaz, and Gonzalez but "everyone else is up for grabs".

In that case, who would you take from the Mariners and what kind of package would you give?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#2

Posted: November 06, 2018, 11:42 AM Post
User avatar

Resident Hipster
Global Moderator
Posts: 11933
Mike Zunino is a pretty fascinating player. Has turned into a good defender with plus power but the batting average has mostly been atrocious. If you think you can get him to hit .250-.270, he's a borderline All-Star level player.

The Brewers could certainly do worse than Jean Segura at second base. Has full no-trade protection though and not sure what terms he left Milwaukee under.

Dan "Quadzilla" Altavilla throws hard as hell and still has big upside as a reliever. Alex Colome has a lot of value in the bullpen as well, though he's a FA after 2020.

Lefties Roenis Elias and James Pazos (a clancy favorite, IIRC) quietly had nice seasons out of Seattle's pen and either might be better than Xavier Cedeno.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#3

Posted: November 06, 2018, 11:43 AM Post
Posts: 3571
Location: New Berlin, WI
Paxton has to be the target. Could also look at Dee Gordon to play 2b and shift to 4th OF when Hiura comes up, this is assuming the Mariners are willing to eat a chunk of the contract of course..


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#4

Posted: November 06, 2018, 11:45 AM Post
Posts: 3571
Location: New Berlin, WI
Zunino is basically Chris Carter at the catcher spot. I don't mind it as much considering the position, and assuming he is a good defender. I wouldn't make him a priority and wouldn't spend a ton on him. I also don't think Zunino really fits the mold of player Stearns has targeted in his tenure.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#5

Posted: November 06, 2018, 12:30 PM Post
User avatar

The Weatherman
Global Moderator
Posts: 5629
I have no idea how that roster won 89 games, but good for them for finally realizing they need a change.

Paxton (free agent in 2021) is the juiciest target but won't come cheaply.
I would love to have Segura as well. He seems like the most likely target if the Mariners are in salary dump mode.
Zunino is intriguing as a backup C/bench power bat but only if he costs next to nothing. He might be a good fit for Miller Park, although the size of the ballpark doesn't matter on the rare occasion he makes contact.

Not interested in Dee Gordon at all.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#6

Posted: November 06, 2018, 12:31 PM Post
Posts: 346
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#7

Posted: November 06, 2018, 12:37 PM Post
Posts: 3524
Location: Madison, WI
long ball said:
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


right, and if whatever magic Oakland caught doesn't happen then they're in the playoffs. Really, you could easily argue they'd be the favorite for a WC spot next year. With the current longest playoff drought and being this close two years in a row I don't think they should teardown now either.

ETA: I'd change this post in hindsight, didn't know Cruz is a FA. Some reason thought they re-upped a while back.


Last edited by tmwiese55 on November 06, 2018, 1:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#8

Posted: November 06, 2018, 1:39 PM Post
Posts: 1168
long ball said:
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


Probably has something to do with the -34 run differential last year.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#9

Posted: November 06, 2018, 1:43 PM Post
User avatar

The Weatherman
Global Moderator
Posts: 5629
long ball said:
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


The 2018 Mariners were a complete fluke. They had no business being anywhere near 89 wins with a negative run differential. They regressed back to a .500 team in the second half. Lightning isn't going to strike in the same place again in 2019. Felix is washed up, Cruz is a FA, and Cano is owed a fortune.

On top of that, the fan interest for this middling roster is essentially zero. They are going to be stuck as a perpetual third place team behind Houston and Oakland. If they don't sell now they will probably have to sell in July and they probably think they can get more for their assets by selling now.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#10

Posted: November 06, 2018, 2:16 PM Post
User avatar

Resident Hipster
Global Moderator
Posts: 11933
And yes, Paxton is an obvious target but he turns 30 literally today and has not pitched more than 160 innings in a season on a big league mound. He'll cost an arm and a leg to get, and there's a lot of injury risk to take on. Especially for only 2 years of control.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#11

Posted: November 06, 2018, 2:30 PM Post
Posts: 3571
Location: New Berlin, WI
And That said:
And yes, Paxton is an obvious target but he turns 30 literally today and has not pitched more than 160 innings in a season on a big league mound. He'll cost an arm and a leg to get, and there's a lot of injury risk to take on. Especially for only 2 years of control.


Paxton is definitely a check in and see guy. His cost might be in the Degrom range of Hiura + one of the big three young arms + extras...in which case I wouldn't be interested. Pitching is king though, it wouldn't shock me to see a team give up a package close to that for him...if he gets moved at all.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#12

Posted: November 06, 2018, 2:31 PM Post
Posts: 346
The market inefficiency right now is playing for the middle. If you don't have a 95 win team you may as well have a 65 win team.

The Mariners fall somewhere in between. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. They have some really good pieces on the roster and could easily end up back in the 85-90 win range in 2019 which gets you in the playoffs most years.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#13

Posted: November 06, 2018, 2:47 PM Post
User avatar

The Weatherman
Global Moderator
Posts: 5629
long ball said:
The market inefficiency right now is playing for the middle. If you don't have a 95 win team you may as well have a 65 win team.

The Mariners fall somewhere in between. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. They have some really good pieces on the roster and could easily end up back in the 85-90 win range in 2019 which gets you in the playoffs most years.


I feel like as someone who lives in Seattle and watched quite a bit of Mariners baseball this year, I have to reiterate that this is not a good roster. There are some good pieces, but this is not a good team. And due to poor contracts they don't have any prospects or money available to make it better.

They have $132 MILLION committed to TEN players for 2019. Almost all of those players are on the wrong side of age 30. There is no possible way they are winning 85+ games again in 2019. They aren't good enough to play for the middle.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#14

Posted: November 06, 2018, 3:46 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 17922
The Mariners need at least two starting caliber outfielders, Seager to be the Seager from 2013-17 and not from 2018, literally anyone other than Ryon Healy at 1B, a couple starting pitchers, a couple relievers, a DH type bat that can replicate Cruz's production and they have to get it with almost no money to spend and no prospects to give up.

Even if they manage to get all of that they still might only be the third best team in the division.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#15

Posted: November 06, 2018, 3:55 PM Post
Posts: 3571
Location: New Berlin, WI
trwi7 said:
The Mariners need at least two starting caliber outfielders, Seager to be the Seager from 2013-17 and not from 2018, literally anyone other than Ryon Healy at 1B, a couple starting pitchers, a couple relievers, a DH type bat that can replicate Cruz's production and they have to get it with almost no money to spend and no prospects to give up.

Even if they manage to get all of that they still might only be the third best team in the division.


Wow, you make it seem like they might be in a worse situation than the Cubs will find themselves in 2020.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#16

Posted: November 06, 2018, 5:02 PM Post
Posts: 585
long ball said:
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


In the case of the Mariners, this is exactly what they've been doing for the last few years, they've been extremely active in the trade market. "Attempting to make improvements on the margins" is Jerry Dipoto's middle name. I don't quite know what his parents were thinking there.

But it hasn't gotten them anywhere, and has depleted their farm system with nothing to show for it. They're nowhere near the Astros, the A's have a great young core and will be good for years, and even the Angels should be better than they are. One of the WCs should go to the Red Sox/Yankees every year for the next few years. If you do the teardown while you still have some assets to sell you get back to competitive ways sooner. They can try to learn from the Brewers rebuild. If you wait too long to tear it down you end up like the Orioles. And the Mariners weren't good in 2018. That incredible record in 1-run games, probably largely due to Edwin Diaz having an amazing season, managed to gloss over the fact that they're a sub-500 team by run differential.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#17

Posted: November 06, 2018, 7:52 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10916
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Get Segura and Paxton from them and call it a day.

Then the next day, go get Realmuto.


Cain- CF
Segura- 2B
Yelich- RF
Realmuto- C
Shaw- 3B
Braun- LF
Aguilar- 1B
Arcia- SS

Whoooooaaaaa Nelly!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#18

Posted: November 07, 2018, 7:09 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 402
Would they be interested in the Davis, Andersons, Santantas, Broxtons and Thames of the world? If we could give them someone from that group to lower the price, I would be all for it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#19

Posted: November 07, 2018, 9:05 AM Post
Posts: 1200
Location: Madison, WI
Scoreboard update:
Billionaire Mariner's owner = +135,000,000
Millionaire MLB players = +1,000,000's
Idiot politicians in the state of Washington = 0
Dumb general public = -135,000,000

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... -ballpark/

Thanks for the 135 million dollars, suckers!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Seattle Mariners
#20

Posted: November 07, 2018, 9:29 AM Post
Posts: 11724
long ball said:
I know this really isn't the point of the post, but I find it ridiculous that they'd be willing to tear it down.

I know that the AL was extremely competitive in 2018, but that is more of an exception than the rule. The Twins won the WC2 in 2017 with only 85 wins.

In 2015 the NL WC2 took 97 wins, but in 2016 it only took 87 wins.

Teams should be more willing to play the middle and instead of just selling they should attempt to make improvements on the margins.

Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen.


Well the Mariners 2018 season kind of mirrors the Brewers of 2014. Not unlike the 2014 Brewers, they have a lot of guys in mid career getting expensive and tough intra-division competition. Brewers waited until a horrid start to 2015 to start looking to sell. Mariners have a ton of money committed to very few players. Brewers at least had guys who were on back ends of team friendly deals to trade. Not so with the Mariners.

I think the Brewers have the bullets to get Paxton. It's going to take at least one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta for certain. Maybe they'd take the their choice of those three plus Santana, Ray and low level arm with upside too. That's a pretty substantial price but if Stearns views Paxton as the ace the Brewers are missing, it's conceivable.


Last edited by JohnBriggs12 on November 07, 2018, 9:49 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 75 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brewchicken, brewcrewdue80, danzig6767, PeaveyFury, yfinn6 and 23 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test