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Mike Moustakas News

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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 9:56 AM Post
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Posts: 9476
mtsportsfan said:
I guess I was referring to what part would be the weak link. Not any players mentioned would scare me on a consistent basis.
Just don't need to see us sign moose, would rather leave Shaw at third and find someone to play second . Or sign moose and trade Shaw, one or the other , I know that batting average isn't the tell all , but it still can't be ignored.
As for eyeball test, I guess people can see what they want. To me Thames doesn't pass. Moose and Shaw offer a good argument. Just saying we have to many below .251 hitters


But again ... who are you going to sign or trade for to play 2B that is going to provide more value there than Shaw? Personally, I think if Shaw ends up at 2B, there's a strong chance that he's your starting 2B in the 2019 All Star game. Very few current 2B are going to put up the numbers Shaw can from that position.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 10:36 AM Post
Posts: 80
What numbers are you talking about ? His numbers are not all-star worthy.
Look , I like Shaw , I like him at third . Just saying we don't need two lefty third baseman who are virtually the same. If you think Shaw is the answer at second then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't have a answer, maybe if I had more time or got paid to do so I would , but to me to sign moose doesn't make sense. Could use the money in another area of need.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 10:42 AM Post
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Posts: 13659
Location: Milwaukee, WI
It’s the day we live in now. There just aren’t that many hitters that hit for high averages. There were under 100 players had averages of .251 or higher a year ago, Moustakas being one of them (and Shaw is a career .255 hitter). There’s 30 teams. Just a little over 3 batters on a team if it were spread out evenly.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 11:06 AM Post
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Posts: 9476
mtsportsfan said:
What numbers are you talking about ? His numbers are not all-star worthy.
Look , I like Shaw , I like him at third . Just saying we don't need two lefty third baseman who are virtually the same. If you think Shaw is the answer at second then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't have a answer, maybe if I had more time or got paid to do so I would , but to me to sign moose doesn't make sense. Could use the money in another area of need.


Well, I'm looking at an .825 OPS last year, and an .863 in 2017. I'm looking at 32 bombs last year, and 31 in 2017. Those would very much put him in the All Star conversation as a 2B. He likely is never going to measure up perfectly defensively as a 2B, but he proved last year that he is not out of his league there.

I do agree that Shaw and Moose have skillsets that are somewhat redundant. But this is a World Series-contending squad, and having Shaw in the lineup at 2B makes the lineup deeper than having the Spangenez platoon there. Having Perez as part of a platoon takes away his value as a jack-of-all-trades as well.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 11:51 AM Post
Posts: 19183
mtsportsfan said:
Seriously - Thames. 219 ave
Shaw 241
Arcia 236
Grandal 241
If we sign moose back 251 ave.
I see alot of holes. Can live with Arcia because of his above average defense
But to sign moose back and then have Shaw at second doesn't instill alot of
confidence in that lineup. To many below average hitters.


I know it's still wildly popular, but batting average is an atrocious measurement of offensive production. Any stat that refers to Travis Shaw as a "hole" is a very, very bad stat.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 1:07 PM Post
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clancyphile said:

Aguilar/Shaw/Thames puts the best offense in the lineup, no question about it. No black holes (other than the risk of Arcia replicating the first half of 2018) aside from the pitcher.

cf: Cain
rf: Yelich
lf: Braun
2b: Shaw
3b: Aguilar
c: Grandal
1b: Thames
ss: Arcia

Where is the weak link in that lineup?


There's probably less than .00001% chance that the Brewers are having any internal discussions of Aguilar playing 3B on anything more than an emergency basis. Unlike us armchair managers, the Brewers brass have shown that they value defense, and the defensive metrics very highly. The numbers last year showed that. Aguilar at 3B full time, for even a month would be a hot mess.

It's no secret that you personally prefer lineups that get the most offensive pop at every position but the Brewers have shown that they absolutely value defense. That's why guys like Perez and Arcia have value to them. I think more than a few were surprised when they acquired Moustakas and shifted Shaw to second, but obviously they trusted their shift metrics (and Shaw) to at least hold the fort there, and he did just that.

Aguilar is not Shaw. Aguilar made a few nifty plays here and there, but putting him at 3rd for 6 weeks just isn't a solution. As HNW said, now you're downgrading defense at multiple positions. Shaw to 2nd to put Moose at 3rd wasn't a defensive downgrade at 3rd, because Moose was (allegedly) a solid 3rd baseman.

The Brewers need to be playing games to win them, not handcuffing their own opportunites by putting out suboptimal alignments. Their bullpen (and pitching overall) was so good last year partly because of the defense. Doing stuff like this is going to take a lot away from that.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 1:33 PM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
mtsportsfan said:
I guess I was referring to what part would be the weak link. Not any players mentioned would scare me on a consistent basis.
Just don't need to see us sign moose, would rather leave Shaw at third and find someone to play second . Or sign moose and trade Shaw, one or the other , I know that batting average isn't the tell all , but it still can't be ignored.
As for eyeball test, I guess people can see what they want. To me Thames doesn't pass. Moose and Shaw offer a good argument. Just saying we have to many below .251 hitters

Absolutely BA can't be ignored but it should be never be used as a stand alone metric to tell one's story.

Regarding the 2nd part, sure, anybody can see what they want but that doesn't mean they know what they're looking at/for. Baseball is simple on the surface but ridiculously complicated underneath.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 3:12 PM Post
Posts: 2039
RoCoBrewfan said:
clancyphile said:

Aguilar/Shaw/Thames puts the best offense in the lineup, no question about it. No black holes (other than the risk of Arcia replicating the first half of 2018) aside from the pitcher.

cf: Cain
rf: Yelich
lf: Braun
2b: Shaw
3b: Aguilar
c: Grandal
1b: Thames
ss: Arcia

Where is the weak link in that lineup?


There's probably less than .00001% chance that the Brewers are having any internal discussions of Aguilar playing 3B on anything more than an emergency basis. Unlike us armchair managers, the Brewers brass have shown that they value defense, and the defensive metrics very highly. The numbers last year showed that. Aguilar at 3B full time, for even a month would be a hot mess.

It's no secret that you personally prefer lineups that get the most offensive pop at every position but the Brewers have shown that they absolutely value defense. That's why guys like Perez and Arcia have value to them. I think more than a few were surprised when they acquired Moustakas and shifted Shaw to second, but obviously they trusted their shift metrics (and Shaw) to at least hold the fort there, and he did just that.

Aguilar is not Shaw. Aguilar made a few nifty plays here and there, but putting him at 3rd for 6 weeks just isn't a solution. As HNW said, now you're downgrading defense at multiple positions. Shaw to 2nd to put Moose at 3rd wasn't a defensive downgrade at 3rd, because Moose was (allegedly) a solid 3rd baseman.

The Brewers need to be playing games to win them, not handcuffing their own opportunites by putting out suboptimal alignments. Their bullpen (and pitching overall) was so good last year partly because of the defense. Doing stuff like this is going to take a lot away from that.


Aguilar played at 3B For 5 games last year. What did you see from those five games that makes you feel he cannot play there for 10 or 15 games? I'll agree that he seems like he really shouldn't play there regularly (body type, range), yet I haven't seen the evidence. Many thought it was crazy to move Shaw over too, but it worked out. I'm not saying Aguilar at 3B and Shaw at 2B should be long term solutions, but I haven't seen the negative yet of playing them in those positions even more, especially when we could get more pop in the lineup.

Get a lead, hand it to the pen, and sub them out late in the game.... And Aguilar made several nifty plays (including throws to 2B and over the shoulder catches) at 1B last year.


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 5:00 PM Post
Posts: 80
True , never said that batting average should stand alone metric, just that it shouldn't be dismissed ( never thought that you said that).
I think sometimes people can over think it too. Baseball really isn't as complicated as it made out to be. I know they have a advanced metric for everything. Wonder how they scouted before [smile] ?


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Offline  Re: Mike Moustakas News
Posted: February 17, 2019, 5:19 PM Post
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Brewerfan Jedi
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Posts: 20430
Locking this up. Per Ken Rosenthal, Moose has signed a 1-yr deal.to return to the Brewers.

Please continue any discussion in the MLB Forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38129

Stearns Brewing Co.: Sustainability from farm to plate


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