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Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana

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Offline  Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#1

Posted: December 06, 2018, 9:42 AM Post
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Do you think Domingo Santana for ShaneBieber is possible? The Indians could use a corner outfielder and Bieber would allow them to keep Kluber-Carrasco-Bauer and Salazar while filling a need for them.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#2

Posted: December 06, 2018, 9:58 AM Post
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A trade like that makes a lot of sense for both sides, but if the Indians wanted Santana, I suspect they would have acquired him last offseason. Also, corner OF bats, especially inconsistent ones who offer poor defense, seem to not have much value.

But I agree that Santana would be a great fit for that Indians lineup, which has been trotting out a trainwreck in the OF and stands to lose Brantley.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#3

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:01 AM Post
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It is an interesting thought but with a lot of the Cleveland stars getting to arbitration and big figures coming they need these young minimum pitchers and would rather use their older, expensive pitchers to replenish the talent.


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Online  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#4

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:02 AM Post
Posts: 1271
Before "MadThinker" comes in and says his peace, this proposal is yet again heavily tilted towards the Brewers. There is zero reason for the Tribe to trade Bieber while trying to move more expensive pitchers.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#5

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:09 AM Post
Posts: 633
I would do the deal. However, I don't think the Indians would do the deal.

If they wanted Santana I think they would have already swung a deal.

Moreover, Santana's value is pretty low right now. I don't think he nets a mid-rotation or front end starting pitcher. Just not happening after his 2018.

If anything I think Santana would be more likely to bring back an Adam Lind type package of lottery tickets.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#6

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:24 AM Post
Posts: 243
not a chance. Bieber is solid. Santana is awful. Tribe is building for 2021. Beiber, McKenzie fit in perfectly.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#7

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:25 AM Post
Posts: 3810
Location: New Berlin, WI
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
A trade like that makes a lot of sense for both sides, but if the Indians wanted Santana, I suspect they would have acquired him last offseason. Also, corner OF bats, especially inconsistent ones who offer poor defense, seem to not have much value.

But I agree that Santana would be a great fit for that Indians lineup, which has been trotting out a trainwreck in the OF and stands to lose Brantley.


Every writer claiming Nimmo is a viable centerpiece for Realmuto begs to differ...

This is more of a shot at the writers thinking Nimmo is a viable centerpiece for Realmuto, I generally agree with you on that point.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#8

Posted: December 06, 2018, 10:40 AM Post
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I could definitely see Santana or maybe Corey Ray going to the Indians, and one of their starters coming back. But I think one of those guys would likely be a part of a prospect package for Kluber, Bauer, Carrasco or Salazar.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#9

Posted: December 06, 2018, 11:02 AM Post
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Cleveland is trying to cut payroll - dealing Bieber doesn’t accomplish that.


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Online  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#10

Posted: December 06, 2018, 11:06 AM Post
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Bieber has quite a bit more value than Domingo.

If the Indians offered the trade, I'd do it in a second.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#11

Posted: December 06, 2018, 1:38 PM Post
Posts: 976
Location: Ohio
I thank those that have responded before me & made my point.
That trade proposal is way out balance & the Tribe would not make that deal.


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Online  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#12

Posted: December 07, 2018, 10:20 AM Post
Posts: 3797
Saw the title of this thread and immediately wanted to counter with a Justin Bieber for Carlos Santana trade...


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#13

Posted: December 07, 2018, 1:28 PM Post
Posts: 497
Location: Milwaukee
I don't think Bieber moves the needle for the Brewers so I wouldn't target him to begin with. Yeah he has nunzeo control/command but also has average velo on his fastball with average secondary pitches. He's had a H9 north of 9 everywhere outside of his 2018 minor league season, and that's as an advanced college arm, so that's not going to change facing MLB lineups. He had a 5.18 ERA over his final 16 MLB starts giving up 102 hits in 90 innings. He had 8 QS in 20 starts. His exit velo and hard hit percentage aren't good and batters had a high launch angle against him (at least this year they did). His (x) FIP are great because he literally never walks or hits anybody and I think his HR9 is pretty standard. His K9 this year was very good but that's a career high next to his A ball performance otherwise he's never been above 8.7 and most likely won't be moving forward. I personally don't believe he'll be anything more than a decent #5 because his stuff is average and he'll continue to get hit. The 6yrs cheap control is great though


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#14

Posted: December 07, 2018, 8:13 PM Post
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Chicago Here said:
not a chance. Bieber is solid. Santana is awful. Tribe is building for 2021. Beiber, McKenzie fit in perfectly.



No he is not. That's is ridiculous. There is a significant gap between one player not having as much value as another and foolishly saying one player is "awful."

Santana is a 25 year old who got squeezed out of an OF last year that had two MVP candidates in it and in his age 24 season had an .875 OPS. Not saying he's Ted Williams, but it's absolutely ridiculout to say "he's awful."


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#15

Posted: December 08, 2018, 9:20 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
With Taylor being added to the 25-man roster, I'd guess that means CF #1 is Cain and CF #2 is Yelich and if injury requires a move then Taylor is CF #3. Santana is probably still in the Brewers plan as the insurance policy if Braun continues to regress. Broxton seems like the odd man out. Only question is if the Brewers can trade Broxton for a low-level, lower grading prospect OR will they just end up losing him through waivers. Good chance the team carries 13 pitchers >50% of the time in 2019...keeping five outfielders will be near impossible which means keeping both Santana and Broxton will be near impossible.

I still think Santana is a great fit for the Indians, but I think a deal would have happened long before now if the Indians had any interest in Santana. To me Santana has become a near obvious hold. Bottom line is that he's slashed .270/.355/.470/.826 over the last three years, and there is no reason to think he can't revert back to 2017 form since he will only be entering his age 26 season. I don't think he would return near what his trade value should be considering his bat/youth, so it makes sense to hold onto him. If the Brewers do only keep four outfielders, with one of them being the often injured Braun, Santana could end up playing a lot and be a pretty valuable member of the team.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#16

Posted: December 08, 2018, 12:42 PM Post
Posts: 796
I think there’s probably a better chance Santana would be the centerpiece of a trade for Bauer. Which I’d be cool with.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#17

Posted: December 08, 2018, 4:23 PM Post
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Kelbysdaddy said:
I think there’s probably a better chance Santana would be the centerpiece of a trade for Bauer. Which I’d be cool with.


Of course you would be cool with it because there's no way Cleveland would be good with Santana being the centerpiece of a Bauer trade.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#18

Posted: December 09, 2018, 12:00 AM Post
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They did everything they could to trade Santana in 2018 and nothing he did will make that easier.

No chance he is the centerpiece of a trade for a quality controllable arm and I like Santana a lot.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#19

Posted: December 09, 2018, 9:30 AM Post
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Boomer5 said:
They did everything they could to trade Santana in 2018 and nothing he did will make that easier.

No chance he is the centerpiece of a trade for a quality controllable arm and I like Santana a lot.



How exactly do you know this? I find it hard to believe they were as desperate as you suggest to move a guy coming off a .875 OPS in his age 24 season and even harder to believe that nobody wanted him.


I have zero doubt Cleveland would want him as the best and main piece back for a pitcher like Bauer....both things can be true without this level of hyperbole.

I would guess that they made him available, probably even actively shopped him and then determined that they couldn't get back what THEY deemed equal trade value. That's just me guessing because I never read definitively from anyone anywhere that they were trying to even trade him. But again, don't think they said he was available and just nobody wanted a cost controlled 25 year old player who just had a 3.3 WAR season.


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Offline  Re: Proposal: Shane Bieber for Santana
#20

Posted: December 09, 2018, 9:38 AM Post
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HiAndTight said:
Boomer5 said:
They did everything they could to trade Santana in 2018 and nothing he did will make that easier.

No chance he is the centerpiece of a trade for a quality controllable arm and I like Santana a lot.



How exactly do you know this? I find it hard to believe they were as desperate as you suggest to move a guy coming off a .875 OPS in his age 24 season and even harder to believe that nobody wanted him.


I have zero doubt Cleveland would want him as the best and main piece back for a pitcher like Bauer....both things can be true without this level of hyperbole.

I would guess that they made him available, probably even actively shopped him and then determined that they couldn't get back what THEY deemed equal trade value. That's just me guessing because I never read definitively from anyone anywhere that they were trying to even trade him. But again, don't think they said he was available and just nobody wanted a cost controlled 25 year old player who just had a 3.3 WAR season.


I was going to respond with this same idea last night, but you were much more eloquent in your response than I would have been. Just because Santana was rumored to be on the block last year and wasn't dealt doesn't mean that no one wanted him. It simply means that no one wanted him enough to meet Stearns demands on a return. And we have absolutely no clue what that was. I know that if Stearns was determined to trade Santana last year, and didn't care what he got back, Domingo would no longer be Brewers' property.

Last year I questioned why the Indians didn't trade for Domingo, given his perceived fit in that lineup. Well, they suffered though a year of junk OF production other than Brantley, and he won't be back in 2019. Their need for OF help is now even greater than last year. Will this persuade them to make a deal for Santana? It could certainly be argued that they probably should, but we'll see what happens. But as an outside observer, the Brewers have several guys under their control, including Santana, Broxton, Taylor, Stokes and Ray, that SHOULD be highly appealing to a team that trotted out absolute crap in their OF for much of the year, and doesn't have a whole heck of a lot in the pipeline to improve that internally.


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