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Gio Gonzalez News

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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#21

Posted: March 04, 2019, 9:51 PM Post
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Posts: 8133
Had Gio not finished the year with the Brewers would anyone be bringing his name up? I kind of doubt it. I had posted somewhere that his BABIP plummeted (to the good) when he came here. Perhaps it was due to the Brewers advanced and talented defense, maybe it was just luck. Probably somewhere in between. Either way, there's some upside there but I'd rather just roll with the young guys than waste time and money on Gio.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#22

Posted: March 05, 2019, 12:48 AM Post
Posts: 532
jerichoholicninja said:
Had Gio not finished the year with the Brewers would anyone be bringing his name up? I kind of doubt it. I had posted somewhere that his BABIP plummeted (to the good) when he came here. Perhaps it was due to the Brewers advanced and talented defense, maybe it was just luck. Probably somewhere in between. Either way, there's some upside there but I'd rather just roll with the young guys than waste time and money on Gio.



With regard to the first question, probably not as much...though we're brought up just about every available pitchers name, so, yes, I'm sure people would be bringing his name up, but he was with the Brewers, we have some familiarity with him and he performed well with us. And I'm sure people would still be interested given his track record. He's not just a guy who had a bad year with Washington last year and then pitched well for us. He's been one of the better #2-3 pitchers in baseball for a decade. If we can get him for cheap...why not? I like what Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff, but I would like to see a left hander that we can count on for 175 innings this year.

I do feel like people are expecting a bit too much from the young guys because of their dominance in limited exposure last year in the post-season when they dominated in shorter stretches. Add that to the question marks about Nelson, nobody knows what Anderson is going to give us this year, it's probably asking a lot to expect Chacin to pitch a full season like last year at the same level. I'd just like to see a little more coverage. And Gio gives us a lefty with some upside yet without having to go nuts like we would have with Kuechel. I'm sure we'll add a couple of starters anyway and we likely would have added Gio by now if he was willing to accept what the Brewers were offering. But maybe that changes as opening day approaches.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#23

Posted: March 05, 2019, 8:22 AM Post
Posts: 1400
Location: Madison, WI
The Brewers should ask Gonzalez if he would be open to pitching out of the bullpen and, if so, he would be a great insurance addition. With Suter down, there are only two lefties on the 40-man roster which is a concern. Only lefty pitcher who was a non-roster invitee is Angel Perdomo who is a 24 year old that hasn't pitched above A ball and is scheduled to begin the season in Biloxi. With Torres-Costa down with injury, the other top ranking lefties (in terms of proximity to MLB) in the system are Brad Kuntz and Cameron Roegner. When it comes to lefty pitching, the Brewers only have Hader and Claudio and little else for 2019.

Plan would be to begin the season with Gonzalez in the rotation. He could stay there all year if he's pitching well and both Hader and Claudio are healthy. But if either of the relievers would go down with injury, it would be nice if the Brewers had the option to move Gonzalez to the bullpen. The big question is how Gonzalez would adjust since he's been a starter for so long. But over the last three years, lefties slashed .213/.271/.304/.575 and righties have slashed .252/.331/.402/.733 off Gonzalez. His background as a starter indicates he could be used as a multi-inning reliever, and the splits against lefties indicates he would be a good candidate to send out there against a tough left-handed bat later in the game.

Two years ago I probably would have said just save the money and if the Brewers need a lefty then go out and get one at the deadline. But with the way Counsell uses a bullpen, how long could the Brewers go with only one lefty reliever if Hader or Claudio ended up with a bulky elbow two weeks into the season? If Hader and Claudio both stay healthy the whole year, then I don't think the lefty aspect of the pitching staff is a concern at all. But if either of them get hurt, especially early, it could cause some trouble.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only lefties still out there that are even worth mentioning are Keuchel, Gonzalez and Jorge De La Rosa. De La Rosa did have a very respectable season in 2018, but he is much older (turns 38 in about a month) and IMO is a significant downgrade from Gonzalez.

It all comes down to if Gonzalez would be willing to pitch out of the bullpen. If so, I wouldn't mind seeing the Brewers sign him to a one-year deal.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#24

Posted: March 05, 2019, 10:14 AM Post
Posts: 554
Location: Milwaukee
Warning Track Power said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
He was actually extremely effective as a Brewer. Thought that needs to be taken with the caveat that he was regularly lifted at the first sign of trouble.

This may have had something to do with the Brewers having an expanded roster for the month he was with them. I think the leash would be significantly longer if he were to be re-signed.

Nothing would change. Gio had 5 starts the final month averaging 5 innings per start.

5.2 in 89 pitches
4.2 in 89
6 in 90
4 in 69 (3er)
5 in 74 (won 11-0 and guerra/lyles finished it so no reason to leave gio in)

Gio would be a good addition to the team in both the rotation or pen. Another experienced lefty who can help.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#25

Posted: March 05, 2019, 11:01 AM Post
Posts: 354
Humans Need Water said:
Warning Track Power said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
He was actually extremely effective as a Brewer. Thought that needs to be taken with the caveat that he was regularly lifted at the first sign of trouble.

This may have had something to do with the Brewers having an expanded roster for the month he was with them. I think the leash would be significantly longer if he were to be re-signed.

Nothing would change. Gio had 5 starts the final month averaging 5 innings per start.

5.2 in 89 pitches
4.2 in 89
6 in 90
4 in 69 (3er)
5 in 74 (won 11-0 and guerra/lyles finished it so no reason to leave gio in)

Gio would be a good addition to the team in both the rotation or pen. Another experienced lefty who can help.


+1
With Brewers brutal schedule in March,April and May,I want the strongest
Pitching staff as possible going into opening day.In my opinion Gio would
Help not only starting staff, but also allow Burnes,woody or peralta back to pen, making that stronger as well.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#26

Posted: March 05, 2019, 11:25 AM Post
Posts: 1869
DHonks said:
Roderick said:
brewmann04 said:
I don't see the down side of adding him .....


The downside would be that at 33 he does even worse than last year, and they still give him a bunch of starts waiting to see if he will come around.


If he performs like last year, then that’s a huge addition. Even slightly less would be good. Did you think he sucked as a Brewer?


No, I don't think he sucked as a Brewer. I also am not going to weigh those 25 innings near as much as the 145 innings he wasn't that good for Washington. Then you tack on another year to the arm......

My biggest fear is he sucks but you give him 10 starts to verify that he sucks. If he doesn't get too much guaranteed and he isn't given a lot of leash, I am all behind signing him.

I also would be worried that Counsell seemed very quick to pull the trigger on Gio, which is fine in September. But if he handles him that way to start the year, the bullpen is going to have that many more innings to pick up.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#27

Posted: March 05, 2019, 11:39 AM Post
Posts: 3822
Location: Madison, WI
With Tomlin pretty much flopping I don't see the harm here on a very team friendly deal. Maybe be the Miley of last season. Could be a good depth guy. That said, I don't what can be done with his contract situation to be able to go up and down


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#28

Posted: March 05, 2019, 10:39 PM Post
Posts: 7641
tmwiese55 said:
With Tomlin pretty much flopping I don't see the harm here on a very team friendly deal. Maybe be the Miley of last season. Could be a good depth guy. That said, I don't what can be done with his contract situation to be able to go up and down



umm, this is a little ridiculous. It's early in spring training. Everyone is allowed a couple spring mulligans. My view on spring training has evolved into I celebrate when guys thrive, I shrug my shoulders when they don't. I don't declare people done or a star based on a few innings or at bats.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#29

Posted: March 06, 2019, 6:22 AM Post
Posts: 10070
Gio is a solid guy in my opinion...but I wouldn't expect much from him. He would obviously have a longer leash if resigned...wouldn't really have a choice. Guys cannot consistently get pulled in after 4-5 innings.

Probably a guy who will float an ERA around 4. Certainly a pretty nice thing to have in your rotation. I am pretty lukewarm on him coming back. If the price is pretty cheap it would be a pretty solid signing. He surely isn't going to be a massive needle mover at the same time though.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#30

Posted: March 06, 2019, 7:40 AM Post
Posts: 11839
Gosh, Gonzalez is one year removed from a sub 3 ERA and 200 inning season. That followed a season when he posted a 4.57 ERA. You pitch long enough and you're going to have some up and down seasons. Look at the guys the Cubs are counting on. Lester posted years of 4.82 in 2012, and 4.33 in 2017. Hamels had a 4.72 ERA in Texas before he turned it around in Chicago. Gio's not been quite in their class for his career but he's been a quality lefty over an extended period and he's younger than either of those two. I think the young guys would benefit from having a veteran lefty in the rotation. The Brewers already have a surplus of starters and they'll have some work to do to get down to 5 or 6, but adding Gio at a reasonable price makes sense to me.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#31

Posted: March 06, 2019, 7:46 AM Post
Posts: 11839
DHonks said:
tmwiese55 said:
With Tomlin pretty much flopping I don't see the harm here on a very team friendly deal. Maybe be the Miley of last season. Could be a good depth guy. That said, I don't what can be done with his contract situation to be able to go up and down



umm, this is a little ridiculous. It's early in spring training. Everyone is allowed a couple spring mulligans. My view on spring training has evolved into I celebrate when guys thrive, I shrug my shoulders when they don't. I don't declare people done or a star based on a few innings or at bats.


Tomlin is here on a look see basis. His leash is shorter than the guys he's competing against. He can't afford any more stumbles like his last start or he'll end up like Gallardo did last spring.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#32

Posted: March 06, 2019, 8:01 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5866
JohnBriggs12 said:
DHonks said:
tmwiese55 said:
With Tomlin pretty much flopping I don't see the harm here on a very team friendly deal. Maybe be the Miley of last season. Could be a good depth guy. That said, I don't what can be done with his contract situation to be able to go up and down



umm, this is a little ridiculous. It's early in spring training. Everyone is allowed a couple spring mulligans. My view on spring training has evolved into I celebrate when guys thrive, I shrug my shoulders when they don't. I don't declare people done or a star based on a few innings or at bats.


Tomlin is here on a look see basis. His leash is shorter than the guys he's competing against. He can't afford any more stumbles like his last start or he'll end up like Gallardo did last spring.


Miley had a game last spring when he was battered pretty hard, but was otherwise lights out. I would say Tomlin probably used up his mulligan, so the pressure is on now. The team also has more rotation depth than they did last year, and there's always a chance that they could still acquire Keuchel or Gonzalez, which would muddy the waters even more.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#33

Posted: March 06, 2019, 8:16 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9455
I have concerns about Tomlin giving up gopher Balls and the facts he was light up by a team with Non Starters that day is a bit Troubling.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#34

Posted: March 06, 2019, 8:58 AM Post
Posts: 3822
Location: Madison, WI
Yea of course Tomlin could still right the ship but so far it's been bad. He was essentially their one vet flyer this year, last year had a few. All I meant was well 'so far' that looks like it didn't work so maybe bringing in another could make sense. If that's ridiculous so be it.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#35

Posted: March 07, 2019, 6:33 AM Post
Posts: 716
My main hesitation with signing another starter is that I'd like our young guys to get a shot. At the same time, there are a ton of players with option years remaining in the rotation and bullpen, so noone necessarily needs to be traded or released to facilitate a signing. And as far as Gio goes, while he did have a bit of a down year, he wasn't bad. Looking merely at one seasons worth of ERA when trying to predict future run prevention isn't a good idea as it's a rather noisy stat. So looking under the hood a bit, it still shows a down year by his standard. cFIP was a league average 100 (89 for his career) which is the same as Chacin for instance, and DRA- of 93 (With an excellent 81 for his career). As a comparison, Chase Anderson has only had a DRA- under 110 once, and that was a 88 in 2017.

So basically the underlying metrics would suggest he had a down year, but was still at worst a league average pitcher and perhaps a bit better. So you then have to ask yourself if this was just a blip, or if this was the start of a 33-year old declining. The fact that the underlying metrics were mostly hurt by a lower K rate woud be a reason to worry. That his fastball velocity is down from his career numbers is another. But the velocity was the same as during his sub-3 ERA 200IP 2017 season, and the swinging strike rate was the highest its been in 4 years and still above his career average.

Only time will tell if he bounces back or not, and I wouldn't want to sign him to a big long-term deal. But if he can be had for something shorter, I'd take the chance. Or well, I would in a vacuum, I don't know how much salary room the Brewers have to play with at this point and I wouldn't want to exhaust the options at the deadline.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#36

Posted: March 07, 2019, 7:42 AM Post
Posts: 354
Lathund said:
My main hesitation with signing another starter is that I'd like our young guys to get a shot. At the same time, there are a ton of players with option years remaining in the rotation and bullpen, so noone necessarily needs to be traded or released to facilitate a signing. And as far as Gio goes, while he did have a bit of a down year, he wasn't bad. Looking merely at one seasons worth of ERA when trying to predict future run prevention isn't a good idea as it's a rather noisy stat. So looking under the hood a bit, it still shows a down year by his standard. cFIP was a league average 100 (89 for his career) which is the same as Chacin for instance, and DRA- of 93 (With an excellent 81 for his career). As a comparison, Chase Anderson has only had a DRA- under 110 once, and that was a 88 in 2017.

So basically the underlying metrics would suggest he had a down year, but was still at worst a league average pitcher and perhaps a bit better. So you then have to ask yourself if this was just a blip, or if this was the start of a 33-year old declining. The fact that the underlying metrics were mostly hurt by a lower K rate woud be a reason to worry. That his fastball velocity is down from his career numbers is another. But the velocity was the same as during his sub-3 ERA 200IP 2017 season, and the swinging strike rate was the highest its been in 4 years and still above his career average.

Only time will tell if he bounces back or not, and I wouldn't want to sign him to a big long-term deal. But if he can be had for something shorter, I'd take the chance. Or well, I would in a vacuum, I don't know how much salary room the Brewers have to play with at this point and I wouldn't want to exhaust the options at the deadline.


I prefer Keuchel, but I believe we can use an above average lefty in our rotation. One of our big 3 young guns to the pen. I believe we have enough room payroll wise for this and trade deadline moves also.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#37

Posted: March 07, 2019, 7:39 PM Post
Posts: 354
JohnBriggs12 said:
Gosh, Gonzalez is one year removed from a sub 3 ERA and 200 inning season. That followed a season when he posted a 4.57 ERA. You pitch long enough and you're going to have some up and down seasons. Look at the guys the Cubs are counting on. Lester posted years of 4.82 in 2012, and 4.33 in 2017. Hamels had a 4.72 ERA in Texas before he turned it around in Chicago. Gio's not been quite in their class for his career but he's been a quality lefty over an extended period and he's younger than either of those two. I think the young guys would benefit from having a veteran lefty in the rotation. The Brewers already have a surplus of starters and they'll have some work to do to get down to 5 or 6, but adding Gio at a reasonable price makes sense to me.


This^^^^


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#38

Posted: March 08, 2019, 1:35 AM Post
Posts: 203
Brew crew 92 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
Gosh, Gonzalez is one year removed from a sub 3 ERA and 200 inning season. That followed a season when he posted a 4.57 ERA. You pitch long enough and you're going to have some up and down seasons. Look at the guys the Cubs are counting on. Lester posted years of 4.82 in 2012, and 4.33 in 2017. Hamels had a 4.72 ERA in Texas before he turned it around in Chicago. Gio's not been quite in their class for his career but he's been a quality lefty over an extended period and he's younger than either of those two. I think the young guys would benefit from having a veteran lefty in the rotation. The Brewers already have a surplus of starters and they'll have some work to do to get down to 5 or 6, but adding Gio at a reasonable price makes sense to me.


This^^^^


Not to mention being one season removed from 6th in Cy Young voting. If you can get someone like that at a reasonable price, it's a no-brainer to me. I do understand and respect the argument that you don't want to stunt the growth of promising young starters, but those who say "yeah, well he only had 25 good innings" need to look a little closer at his history before being so dismissive.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#39

Posted: March 09, 2019, 9:58 AM Post
Posts: 999
Can we get Gio for one year, six million? I’d be for that if Keuchel isn’t going to happen.


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Offline  Re: Gio Gonzalez News
#40

Posted: March 09, 2019, 11:59 AM Post
Posts: 354
Austin Tatious said:
Can we get Gio for one year, six million? I’d be for that if Keuchel isn’t going to happen.


IMHO take closer to 10+ mil. Still hoping we can sign him.


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