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Big Game James

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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#21

Posted: February 12, 2019, 10:15 AM Post
Posts: 4118
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
I vividly remember all the consternation last year when the Brewers signed Gallardo and Miley, because I was one of the posters leading the charge. I hated the Miley move at the time ... and in the end I was dead wrong. I liked the Gallardo move, and was wrong there, to. Yes, it is very possible that all these guys end up like Gallardo on the scrap heap at the end of Spring Training, but there is no harm in signing a few guys that have had MLB success in the past that may be able to be unlocked again. Shields has milage on his arm, but he's been a great pitcher in the past, and if the risk isn't great, where is the harm in seeing if there is something there he can recapture?


This.

That said, I think that the Brewers NEED to do these moves, even in times of plenty - because they can't offer the big contracts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Angels, Red Sox, Mariners, Cubs, and White Sox can.

If you can reclaim a few players like Miley, Cirillo, Jeffress (twice), then they should.

Low-risk one-year deals with team options, like the one with Lawrie, could pay off big.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#22

Posted: February 12, 2019, 11:55 AM Post
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I have said this in every James Shields thread.

If they want to sign him, that's fine.

However, Peralta (unless pitch-counted very early), Woodruff, Burnes, Davies, Chacin, etc. all can easily go 6 innings. They don't go 6 innings by design. I get the idea that Shields may have more of a variety of stuff to make it into the 6th, but the White Sox let him pitch 6 because they didn't care about winning or losing. If Shields is pitching and he puts 1st/2nd with 1 out in the 5th or even 2 out in the 4th in a close game, Counsell is walking out there and it's over.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#23

Posted: February 12, 2019, 1:20 PM Post
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JimH5 said:
The needle in a haystack transactions are fine during a rebuild and if you want to see if a guy has untapped potential. But the Brewers are going all out to win in 2019 and James Shields should be far away from them.

He's thrown a ton of innings, gives up a ton of homers, and was only in baseball the past couple of years because of his contract.

Pass every time.


Agreed. If we're dreaming on a WS then we really need to set our sights higher than James Shields. He shouldn't be in the discussion for this roster, imo.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#24

Posted: February 12, 2019, 1:22 PM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
I have said this in every James Shields thread.

If they want to sign him, that's fine.

However, Peralta (unless pitch-counted very early), Woodruff, Burnes, Davies, Chacin, etc. all can easily go 6 innings. They don't go 6 innings by design. I get the idea that Shields may have more of a variety of stuff to make it into the 6th, but the White Sox let him pitch 6 because they didn't care about winning or losing. If Shields is pitching and he puts 1st/2nd with 1 out in the 5th or even 2 out in the 4th in a close game, Counsell is walking out there and it's over.


Last year Shields wasn't great any time through the order.

1st - .747 OPS
2nd - .692
3rd - .770

His 2017 numbers are downright laughable.

1st - .786
2nd - .819
3rd - .897


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#25

Posted: February 13, 2019, 8:35 AM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
bill hAll Star said:
I have said this in every James Shields thread.

If they want to sign him, that's fine.

However, Peralta (unless pitch-counted very early), Woodruff, Burnes, Davies, Chacin, etc. all can easily go 6 innings. They don't go 6 innings by design. I get the idea that Shields may have more of a variety of stuff to make it into the 6th, but the White Sox let him pitch 6 because they didn't care about winning or losing. If Shields is pitching and he puts 1st/2nd with 1 out in the 5th or even 2 out in the 4th in a close game, Counsell is walking out there and it's over.


Last year Shields wasn't great any time through the order.

1st - .747 OPS
2nd - .692
3rd - .770

His 2017 numbers are downright laughable.

1st - .786
2nd - .819
3rd - .897


Yeah, I am not really interested in him but obviously any time Stearns signs a pitcher I give the benefit of the doubt that they can fix something.

All I'm saying is that we aren't loaded with "guys that can't go 6 innings." Rather, we just don't want our guys to go 6 or favor guys that are better at being cut off then. So this, "we need an innings-eater" thing is not really something that we really need unless that innings eater is Chris Sale or Verlander.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#26

Posted: February 13, 2019, 8:55 AM Post
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Looking forward to seeing if we can stress our bullpen for a full season...

Last year worked out well in the end, but can we sustain that for a full season, and back to back seasons?

I'm skeptical.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#27

Posted: February 13, 2019, 9:03 AM Post
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turborickey said:
Looking forward to seeing if we can stress our bullpen for a full season...

Last year worked out well in the end, but can we sustain that for a full season, and back to back seasons?

I'm skeptical.


Last year it worked out in September because the pen had plenty of reinforcements with expanded rosters. But there were several points during the regular season pre-September that the pen was gassed due to overuse. The team is lucky that it didn't come back to bite them in a bigger way.

I think for this team to sustain success, they are going to need solid extended starts. Counsell is always going to be a matchup guy prone to early hooks, but there isn't going to be piggybacking or any of that nonsense. At the end of the day, it's still baseball, and they are going to go into every game hoping the starter can go 6 strong.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#28

Posted: February 13, 2019, 9:39 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
turborickey said:
Looking forward to seeing if we can stress our bullpen for a full season...

Last year worked out well in the end, but can we sustain that for a full season, and back to back seasons?

I'm skeptical.


Last year it worked out in September because the pen had plenty of reinforcements with expanded rosters. But there were several points during the regular season pre-September that the pen was gassed due to overuse. The team is lucky that it didn't come back to bite them in a bigger way.

I think for this team to sustain success, they are going to need solid extended starts. Counsell is always going to be a matchup guy prone to early hooks, but there isn't going to be piggybacking or any of that nonsense. At the end of the day, it's still baseball, and they are going to go into every game hoping the starter can go 6 strong.


Here's the thing guys:

-We weren't graced with a Chris Sale or Kluber in our system in the past few years.
-We don't have the money to sign one.
-Trading for one is a major risk.

So...

-We are playing bullpen ball.
-It worked.
-There is risk involved. It absolutely could bite us this year.
-It is much better than the alternative of shaving 5+ games off your win total by trying to squeeze 115 pitches out of Davies every night or throwing James Shields in there to "eat innings."

And to make one more list:
-If the bullpen is gassed, they can push Davies or Burnes to 110 pitches for a game, especially if we luck out and have a lead.
-Here's the important part: Davies or Burnes is better in the 6th inning than James Shields is. So if it comes down to it, we have guys that are better than James Shields at doing it.

For a football metaphor, if you give Trent Richardson 300 carries and Alvin Kamara 150 carries, it doesn't mean that if by some reason you were forced to give Alvin Kamara 300 carries that Richardson would be superior at running the football because he's done it before.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#29

Posted: March 19, 2019, 3:59 PM Post
Posts: 298
Anderson is sketchy.
Nelson will need to build innings in AAA (I'd keep him in Biloxi because of weather).
Davies has not been good.
Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are unproven and need to be limited.
Tomlin may be the #5 to start with to keep him around.

James Shields needs to be a Brewer!


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#30

Posted: March 19, 2019, 4:22 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are unproven and need to be limited.


No. No, they do don’t.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#31

Posted: March 19, 2019, 4:41 PM Post
Posts: 354
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
Anderson is sketchy.
Nelson will need to build innings in AAA (I'd keep him in Biloxi because of weather).
Davies has not been good.
Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are unproven and need to be limited.
Tomlin may be the #5 to start with to keep him around.

James Shields needs to be a Brewer!


No on all 6 of your bullet points. Sorry.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#32

Posted: March 19, 2019, 5:10 PM Post
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Shields would probably give up 50 homers pitching a full season w/ half his games at Miller Park.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#33

Posted: March 20, 2019, 9:32 AM Post
Posts: 11839
RockCoCougars said:
Shields would probably give up 50 homers pitching a full season w/ half his games at Miller Park.


Guaranteed Rate Field is just as HR friendly as Miller Park.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#34

Posted: March 20, 2019, 10:35 AM Post
Posts: 4169
Location: New Berlin, WI
Brew4U said:
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are unproven and need to be limited.


No. No, they do don’t.


Agreed with Brew4U. Man if those 3 guys are unproven, what exactly does a guy have to do to become a proven talent? All 3 of those guys are probably in the top 5 of our most talented starting pitchers. All 3 probably won't break with the rotation due to other factors, but they probably all deserve it.

James Shields would be a silly signing. He's just not a good pitcher anymore. His best bet is to grind it out with a rebuilding club on a low $ deal and hope to have a good enough first half to get traded to a contender looking for depth.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#35

Posted: March 20, 2019, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 298
It's looking like all three will make the rotation with Tomlin gone. I hope it works but:
Burnes has never started at the big league level.
Peralta struggles to throw strikes at times.
Woodruff hasn't exactly been lights out as a starter.

I hope it works out!


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#36

Posted: March 20, 2019, 11:34 AM Post
Posts: 7957
KeithStone53151 said:
Brew4U said:
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are unproven and need to be limited.


No. No, they do don’t.


Agreed with Brew4U. Man if those 3 guys are unproven, what exactly does a guy have to do to become a proven talent? All 3 of those guys are probably in the top 5 of our most talented starting pitchers. All 3 probably won't break with the rotation due to other factors, but they probably all deserve it.

James Shields would be a silly signing. He's just not a good pitcher anymore. His best bet is to grind it out with a rebuilding club on a low $ deal and hope to have a good enough first half to get traded to a contender looking for depth.


Answer: Be an effective starter for at least one entire MLB season, which none of them have.

I don't want Shields, I want these 3 guys to be in the rotation. But let's not pretend they're proven.


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Offline  Re: Big Game James
#37

Posted: March 20, 2019, 1:44 PM Post
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Posts: 9134
NO James Shields


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