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Giants Relievers...

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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#41

Posted: March 29, 2019, 8:27 PM Post
Posts: 4145
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
Honest!! Am I the only one honest enough to say our closing options are the worst in mlb.


You know something we don't about Jeffress? Because all indicates are that he'll be back in two-three weeks.



How much do you need to know? First of all, even if he is back, we've still got a hole unless Albers can pitch like he did two years ago. Second, does anyone in their right mind truly expect he'll be as good+as lucky as he was last year?

This isn't quite Knebel, but I'm not just trusting that a guy with a shoulder issue who was just throwing 84 is going to be back in 2-3 weeks.

But again, even if he is...you have to believe he's going to perform like he did last year, that shoulder won't become an issue again, and then you're still dealing with the giant hole Knebel is leaving.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#42

Posted: March 29, 2019, 8:31 PM Post
Posts: 4145
Brew crew 92 said:
Melancon & 25 mil > Grisham & lottery

Montoya & Smith > Ray & Stokes/Grisham & 2 lottery tickets

Smith & Watson > Ray & Stokes/Grisham

Watson > Stokes/Grisham

Smith > Ray



No, this is crazy. You only trade Ray if you're getting back the young guy. Trading Ray for a reliever with one year of team control is...insane to me. And if that's all it took, Ray would be gone already.

We've played 2 games after tonight. It's not the deadline, we're not THIS desperate. Youdon't give up Ray, Stokes and two young prospects for a young relatively unproven reliever and a one year rental.


If Stearns was this reactionary, we'd likely have Kimbrel on board.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#43

Posted: March 29, 2019, 8:37 PM Post
Posts: 4145
Warning Track Power said:
Count me as someone who wants Will Smith back in Milwaukee. However, with the Giants designating him as their "closer", I am guessing they will be holding him until the deadline the hope of maximizing his value. While I would think Stokes and Grisham for Smith is fair now, by the deadline I am guessing the Brewers would have to offer Ray and others as I expect Smith to be that good this season.



There will be multiple teams trading relievers and plenty of time to make trades. I think Smith will be very good this year, but I wouldn't trade Ray for a rental unless he struggles a bit.

I personally don't even view Smith as the most valuable asset in the initial trade. I view the 26 year old future closer as being more valuable than the older lefty with one year left.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#44

Posted: March 29, 2019, 8:44 PM Post
Posts: 3060
We disagree on Ray. It’s gonna take more than you think on Smith. Ray bad hit tool, way too many ks. Stokes the same. Giants prob say no anyhow.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#45

Posted: March 29, 2019, 10:03 PM Post
Posts: 1007
HiAndTight said:
Warning Track Power said:
Count me as someone who wants Will Smith back in Milwaukee. However, with the Giants designating him as their "closer", I am guessing they will be holding him until the deadline the hope of maximizing his value. While I would think Stokes and Grisham for Smith is fair now, by the deadline I am guessing the Brewers would have to offer Ray and others as I expect Smith to be that good this season.



There will be multiple teams trading relievers and plenty of time to make trades. I think Smith will be very good this year, but I wouldn't trade Ray for a rental unless he struggles a bit.

I personally don't even view Smith as the most valuable asset in the initial trade. I view the 26 year old future closer as being more valuable than the older lefty with one year left.


I don't really see why the Giants would want to trade a guy with 5 years of team control remaining. And if they did, it'd take a lot.

Although with his relief appearance today against the Brewers, Alex Reyes lost his prospect status, which made Corey Ray a top 100 prospect again (at least with MLB Pipeline). Should be able to fetch about twice as much in a trade now thanks to that


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#46

Posted: March 30, 2019, 2:41 AM Post
Posts: 4145
Lathund said:
HiAndTight said:
Warning Track Power said:
Count me as someone who wants Will Smith back in Milwaukee. However, with the Giants designating him as their "closer", I am guessing they will be holding him until the deadline the hope of maximizing his value. While I would think Stokes and Grisham for Smith is fair now, by the deadline I am guessing the Brewers would have to offer Ray and others as I expect Smith to be that good this season.



There will be multiple teams trading relievers and plenty of time to make trades. I think Smith will be very good this year, but I wouldn't trade Ray for a rental unless he struggles a bit.

I personally don't even view Smith as the most valuable asset in the initial trade. I view the 26 year old future closer as being more valuable than the older lefty with one year left.


I don't really see why the Giants would want to trade a guy with 5 years of team control remaining. And if they did, it'd take a lot.

Although with his relief appearance today against the Brewers, Alex Reyes lost his prospect status, which made Corey Ray a top 100 prospect again (at least with MLB Pipeline). Should be able to fetch about twice as much in a trade now thanks to that



Because he's a reliever and that's usually the last part of the team you build. You start with your core, starting pitching, position players, then when you think you're ready to contend, you start dealing for or adding relievers. If you're going to be rebuilding for the next 3-4 years, why not try to acquire an everyday CF'er who has 6 years of control?

It's not like we're talking about a young MadBum, we're talking about a reliever who's already 26. He just doesn't have as much value to a team like the Giants as an elite athlete and top 10 pick like Ray who was a former top 50 prospect and who is coming off a big year in AA.

I just think Corey Ray can bring you back more than a Will Smith type pitcher. He's likely going to be exceptional this year and would be a fantastic addition, but out of the guys you're willing to trade, Ray probably has the most value right now.



We'll just have to see what happens. Again, Stearns isn't clueless. They're not just praying that some of these relievers are going to turn into something they're not, or they wouldn't have even been in discussions for Craig Kimbrel, a guy in any other circumstance the Brewers should never even consider signing for a year or two for more than the QO.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#47

Posted: March 30, 2019, 3:34 PM Post
Posts: 3060
How bout this trade:

Tony Watson > Cory Ray

Watson signed thru next yr at 3 mil per.

I’d do this(not sure farhan does) then sign kimbrel. Watson gives us the high leverage pen arm we desperately need til kimbrel pitches in a month. Send Barnes down now replaced by brown. Watson replaces Williams. New pen:

Hader
Watson
Albers
Claudio
Wilson

Guerra
Anderson
Brown

Now we have 3 high lev pen arms with experience
And 3 multi-inning arms with good stuff that can get the ball to Hader Watson Albers or finish it off themselves.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#48

Posted: March 31, 2019, 8:55 AM Post
Posts: 1742
Location: Madison, WI
Watson's 2020 season is a player option. If you trade for him, you get him for the rest of 2019 because it's a virtual lock that he opts out of 2020 unless he is injured.

Watson does appear to be an ideal trade target for the Brewers.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#49

Posted: March 31, 2019, 9:28 AM Post
Posts: 3060
JosephC said:
Watson's 2020 season is a player option. If you trade for him, you get him for the rest of 2019 because it's a virtual lock that he opts out of 2020 unless he is injured.

Watson does appear to be an ideal trade target for the Brewers.


Good info sir, makes him more affordable, prospect wise.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#50

Posted: March 31, 2019, 5:59 PM Post
Posts: 3060
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
What team has WORSE options?


The Cubs' situation is pretty rotten right now. That's one.


Just watched Pedro strop’s wild pitch, Gallo scores, cubs lose cubs lose.

I think your right, their bullpen worse than ours.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#51

Posted: April 01, 2019, 5:58 PM Post
Posts: 3060
JosephC said:
Watson's 2020 season is a player option. If you trade for him, you get him for the rest of 2019 because it's a virtual lock that he opts out of 2020 unless he is injured.

Watson does appear to be an ideal trade target for the Brewers.


I think stearns stays pat til we find out how jeffress looks with the crew. Would think Watson would be less expensive than Smith, but could still fetch a Ray.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#52

Posted: April 01, 2019, 6:54 PM Post
Posts: 1742
Location: Madison, WI
Brew crew 92 said:

I think your right, their bullpen worse than ours.


No kidding, how bad has the Brewer bullpen so far?

NL ranks-
ERA = 5th (3.57)
FIP = 3rd (0.96)
OPS against = 2nd (.590)


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#53

Posted: April 01, 2019, 7:52 PM Post
Posts: 3060
JosephC said:
Brew crew 92 said:

I think your right, their bullpen worse than ours.


No kidding, how bad has the Brewer bullpen so far?

NL ranks-
ERA = 5th (3.57)
FIP = 3rd (0.96)
OPS against = 2nd (.590)


Extremely small sample size, outside of Hader, average to slightly below average pen. But on a positive note, nowhere to go but up!


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#54

Posted: April 01, 2019, 8:11 PM Post
Posts: 18985
Brew crew 92 said:
JosephC said:
Brew crew 92 said:

I think your right, their bullpen worse than ours.


No kidding, how bad has the Brewer bullpen so far?

NL ranks-
ERA = 5th (3.57)
FIP = 3rd (0.96)
OPS against = 2nd (.590)


Extremely small sample size, outside of Hader, average to slightly below average pen. But on a positive note, nowhere to go but up!


Wouldn't most pens be average to slightly below average at best if you remove their best reliever?


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#55

Posted: April 01, 2019, 8:22 PM Post
Posts: 3060
I don’t know, l guess with Hader prob a little above ave I guess. Not what I’d call a strength of this brewers team, the bullpen. You guys sound like you disagree?


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#56

Posted: April 01, 2019, 8:25 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9272
Brew crew 92 said:
I don’t know, l guess with Hader prob a little above ave I guess. Not what I’d call a strength of this brewers team, the bullpen. You guys sound like you disagree?


Team is 4-1. So far the pen hasn't been a problem. Wilson has looked great, and others have been good as well. On paper, yes, it doesn't look strong. But fortunately they play the games, and players can defy expectations.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#57

Posted: April 01, 2019, 8:35 PM Post
Posts: 3060
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
I don’t know, l guess with Hader prob a little above ave I guess. Not what I’d call a strength of this brewers team, the bullpen. You guys sound like you disagree?


Team is 4-1. So far the pen hasn't been a problem. Wilson has looked great, and others have been good as well. On paper, yes, it doesn't look strong. But fortunately they play the games, and players can defy expectations.


Agree more good than bad. Wilson looks great, Guerra and Albers really good to go with Hader. Claudio great on lefties, anderson should be solid. Williams- meh. Barnes needs to go, and Will probably soon replaced by fields. Jeffress replace Williams, then pen with a good jj back to strength again.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#58

Posted: April 01, 2019, 8:40 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9272
Brew crew 92 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
I don’t know, l guess with Hader prob a little above ave I guess. Not what I’d call a strength of this brewers team, the bullpen. You guys sound like you disagree?


Team is 4-1. So far the pen hasn't been a problem. Wilson has looked great, and others have been good as well. On paper, yes, it doesn't look strong. But fortunately they play the games, and players can defy expectations.


Agree more good than bad. Wilson looks great, Guerra and Albers really good to go with Hader. Claudio great on lefties, anderson should be solid. Williams- meh. Barnes needs to go, and Will probably soon replaced by fields. Jeffress replace Williams, then pen with a good jj back to strength again.


Plus whoever is pulled from the rotation once Nelson is inserted.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#59

Posted: April 01, 2019, 10:09 PM Post
Posts: 1392
JosephC said:
Brew crew 92 said:

I think your right, their bullpen worse than ours.


No kidding, how bad has the Brewer bullpen so far?

NL ranks-
ERA = 5th (3.57)
FIP = 3rd (0.96)
OPS against = 2nd (.590)



Is this another Aprils Fools? Using the BP's stats after 5 games? 3 of which for the record Hader has pitched in as our closer, which I'd assume we can ALL agree is not ideal?

The Brewers have played well. They still need to address their pen earlier than later.

Like I've said over and over. I also will say again I trust CC and Stearns to figure it out.


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Offline  Re: Giants Relievers...
#60

Posted: April 01, 2019, 11:36 PM Post
Posts: 1392
Joey Meyer Bombs said:

Plus whoever is pulled from the rotation once Nelson is inserted.



I'm trying to think who would be the best option. I don't like the idea of any of them being pulled from the rotation. Burnes certainly seems like he'd be the best reliever. He was effectively a RH'ed Hader late last year, but he does have 4 pitches and the upside to make him an ace(I'd argue all 3 young arms could be low end aces or #2, though they're still a long way away from that). It'll almost certainly be one of them, probably Woodruff as I don't think Davies is much more valuable in the pen.

Really excited to see how this team has jumped out to a 4-1 start though with the bad news that came right before the season started.


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