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Moving Eric Thames

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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#21

Posted: May 19, 2019, 8:21 AM Post
Posts: 12076
mlloyd10 said:
SRB said:
Why exactly would we trade Thames when Aguilar and Shaw have both been atrocious?


Aguilar hasn't been atrocious - He's batting .319 over the last three weeks


Yeah, he's been better, but just 3 HR (all in one series and none since??)


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#22

Posted: May 19, 2019, 8:58 AM Post
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Nobody is going to want Thames. Moving him for anything other than a salary dump is a pipe dream.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#23

Posted: May 19, 2019, 11:12 AM Post
Posts: 392
turborickey said:
Nobody is going to want Thames. Moving him for anything other than a salary dump is a pipe dream.


Thames does have a .393 OBP, but he is whiffing at a 45% rate. I don't see him bringing anything more than a low level prospect.


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Online  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#24

Posted: May 19, 2019, 11:55 AM Post
Posts: 18514
wntrtxn21 said:
turborickey said:
Nobody is going to want Thames. Moving him for anything other than a salary dump is a pipe dream.


Thames does have a .393 OBP, but he is whiffing at a 45% rate. I don't see him bringing anything more than a low level prospect.


39 K's / 112 PA's, 34.8% K rate.


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Online  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#25

Posted: May 19, 2019, 12:12 PM Post
Posts: 2917
I believe Stearns needs to get another first baseman by trade. Neither Aguilar or Thames is the answere.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#26

Posted: May 19, 2019, 12:14 PM Post
Posts: 159
Brew crew 92 said:
I believe Stearns needs to get another first baseman by trade. Neither Aguilar or Thames is the answere.

Can Kimbrel play 1st?


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#27

Posted: May 19, 2019, 12:35 PM Post
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Yuni can!


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#28

Posted: May 19, 2019, 1:24 PM Post
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Kendrys Morales keeps getting passed around the league. He won't get anything in return but there are teams out there that would take Thames.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#29

Posted: May 21, 2019, 8:10 AM Post
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I think that IL stints + options (Shaw) will probably just have to carry us for 3 more months with Shaw, Thames, Aguilar. Once in September, we can obviously carry them all with this being the final year of the huge September rosters.

Odds are that the Thames option is declined and potentially one of the other two are non-tendered, but with Mous not being a certainty to come back, you want Shaw as a potential 3B stopgap next year if you think something is there. Depending on how the rest of that goes, you have the option of Shaw, Thames, or Aguilar all for similar prices, Aguilar maybe being the cheapest.


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Online  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#30

Posted: May 21, 2019, 8:22 AM Post
Posts: 11475
JohnBriggs12 said:
If they could somehow land a serviceable LH reliever for Thames, I'd do a deal today. Claudio's been plain awful and Counsell continues to trust him in high leverage situations more than trusting a starter go another inning.


If they used Claudio like he is actually a left handed reliever they wouldn't have a problem. He is great against lefties...however they like to think he is more than what he is.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#31

Posted: May 21, 2019, 9:40 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
If they could somehow land a serviceable LH reliever for Thames, I'd do a deal today. Claudio's been plain awful and Counsell continues to trust him in high leverage situations more than trusting a starter go another inning.


If they used Claudio like he is actually a left handed reliever they wouldn't have a problem. He is great against lefties...however they like to think he is more than what he is.


This is due to the Knebel/Jeffress injuries among other things. At certain points, Claudio has been our #2 or #3 pecking order guy and it's not like we have matchup specialists to take some of the RH load off of him if we're trying to get through the meat of the order.

There have been many points early in the season when it's, "alright, we've got Bellinger, a righty, then Muncy" or something like that and they just leave Claudio in for the whole thing. Claudio is not great against righties but he's not a ton worse than Albers or Taylor Williams that were available on those days.

Once they get bullpen depth, Claudio will be a LOOGY + a handful of ABs against righties to get through to the next lefty.

Yes, yes, before you get out the LH/RH splits on Claudio, I see the .900 OPS against RHB. There are certain cases where the lead/deficit means keeping him in and accepting some of the damage against him.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#32

Posted: May 21, 2019, 10:24 AM Post
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They do have control over Claudio next year as well so I can see why Counsell would use him against more than lefties every once in a while since Counsell will be forced to keep pitchers in more than he would like next year.


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Online  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#33

Posted: May 21, 2019, 10:26 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
Claudio's been plain awful


Both his ERA (pretty meaningless at this point given the small sample) & his xFIP (much more meaningful, especially given Claudio's history of elite HR prevention) are above league average.

By ERA- he is 118th of 181 qualified relievers to this point. By xFIP- he is 80th of 181 qualified relievers to this point.

So, much closer to average than plain awful.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#34

Posted: May 21, 2019, 10:42 AM Post
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Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#35

Posted: May 21, 2019, 10:57 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.


You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#36

Posted: May 21, 2019, 11:53 AM Post
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turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.


You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.


I don't think you can make a statement like this without knowing the full situation. It could very well be that Stearns believed he could be a guy they make into a multiple outs guy and the only way to prove this would be to use him that way. So while it could be that Counsell is a complete moron, it might also not be the situation.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#37

Posted: May 21, 2019, 2:35 PM Post
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turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.


You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.


I do think the manager and GM get this. I know there was the Stearns quote, but they're aware.

This was similar with Jennings last year. His stats skyrocketed because he'd be used as a garbage man or just be kept in after blowing a lead.

And again, a large chunk to open this season had too shallow of a bullpen.

There have been a lot of times that Claudio has come in against a power lefty with a righty behind him and a lefty after that. He then retires the lefty (or even if he doesn't). Hader's unavailable. So what do you do? Do you pull Claudio right away and go to...Matt Albers who then will get pummeled by the lefty afterwards? Or do you just pray that Claudio gets the middle righty (or two) out in between and then can give you an advantage again against the lefty?

The lack of Jeffress and Knebel early in the year moved Claudio from option 4 or 5 that can be deployed situationally to option 2b, with 2a being Guerra. If Claudio doesn't get the first lefty out, you can't bring in Knebel with confidence of getting anyone out past said lefty. You now have to keep Claudio in and pray he gets a righty or two out to get to the next lefty. If not, you are going off the edge of a cliff.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#38

Posted: May 21, 2019, 6:15 PM Post
Posts: 1390
Outlander said:
They do have control over Claudio next year as well so I can see why Counsell would use him against more than lefties every once in a while since Counsell will be forced to keep pitchers in more than he would like next year.



I don't understand this. Why would Counsell be forced to keep pitchers in more next year than he'd like and why would that lead to him using Claudio in situations he shouldn't?

We should have a lot more options next year in the pen, but regardless, I really doubt that he's thinking about next years pen when he's deciding if he should pull a pitcher.


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Online  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#39

Posted: May 21, 2019, 6:27 PM Post
Posts: 18514
bill hAll Star said:
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.


You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.


I do think the manager and GM get this. I know there was the Stearns quote, but they're aware.

This was similar with Jennings last year. His stats skyrocketed because he'd be used as a garbage man or just be kept in after blowing a lead.

And again, a large chunk to open this season had too shallow of a bullpen.

There have been a lot of times that Claudio has come in against a power lefty with a righty behind him and a lefty after that. He then retires the lefty (or even if he doesn't). Hader's unavailable. So what do you do? Do you pull Claudio right away and go to...Matt Albers who then will get pummeled by the lefty afterwards? Or do you just pray that Claudio gets the middle righty (or two) out in between and then can give you an advantage again against the lefty?

The lack of Jeffress and Knebel early in the year moved Claudio from option 4 or 5 that can be deployed situationally to option 2b, with 2a being Guerra. If Claudio doesn't get the first lefty out, you can't bring in Knebel with confidence of getting anyone out past said lefty. You now have to keep Claudio in and pray he gets a righty or two out to get to the next lefty. If not, you are going off the edge of a cliff.


You don't HAVE to. I've said on multiple occasions that this team should start burying pitchers out in corner OF spots on occasion for a single AB when they want to bring the pitcher back in after one AB. That would maintain the platoon advantage for the inning and hopefully keep Counsell from doing crazy things like he did with Claudio against the Braves.

Also Jennings wasn't that comparable to Claudio. For his career, Jennings has had very mild platoon splits. He was not great against RHB, but he was at least usable, and typically wasn't used against them in high leverage situations except as a last resort.

Claudio is different. He has extreme platoon splits and has his entire career. He is a true LOOGY. Nothing about him has given any indication that he would be successful transitioning to a traditional multi-inning role.


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Offline  Re: Moving Eric Thames
#40

Posted: May 21, 2019, 7:41 PM Post
Posts: 392
Brew4U said:
turborickey said:
Brew4U said:
Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.


You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.


I don't think you can make a statement like this without knowing the full situation. It could very well be that Stearns believed he could be a guy they make into a multiple outs guy and the only way to prove this would be to use him that way. So while it could be that Counsell is a complete moron, it might also not be the situation.


Both Stearns and CC know Claudio is absolutely horrible against RH. This year he allows righties: .323/.382 - 981 OPS! For his career: .314/.352 - .831 OPS against righties. Stearns knew Claudio is not a multiple out or multiple inning type guy. He is the definition of a LOOGY.


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