LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  [ 81 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

The Madison Bumgarner Thread: Burnes for Bumgarner [and other trade ideas]: would you do it?

Author Message
Online  The Madison Bumgarner Thread: Burnes for Bumgarner [and other trade ideas]: would you do it?
#1

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:25 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 430
Location: Chicago
Admittedly, it would be selling low on Burnes but he's not going to pitch in the rotation for Milwaukee this year barring a collapse by the team. The homerun ball makes it difficult to put him in as a late inning reliever in close games. The Giants are in desperate need of a rebuild and play in a pitcher's park, more probably true than not they would have keen interest in a young arm with upside like Burnes.

For the Brewers, you get a legitimate top of the rotation arm. You strengthen the entire pitching staff by slotting everyone back one step. Woodruff becomes a #2, Davies a #3 etc. Odd man out is the new swing man in the pen. Bumgarner is one of this generations best playoff pitchers and could be an absolute killer in the post season.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#2

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:28 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13213
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Image

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#3

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:33 AM Post
Posts: 482
Besides the fact Milwaukee is on Bumgarner's no trade list, no thank you to that trade


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#4

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:42 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8658
monkeyman343434 said:
Besides the fact Milwaukee is on Bumgarner's no trade list, no thank you to that trade


It's been pretty well noted that the fact that the Brewers are on MadBum's no-trade list has nothing to do with not wanting to play for the Brewers. Every team on his list is a playoff contender. It was a leverage move on his part to give him some control over which contender he goes to.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#5

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:46 AM Post
Posts: 5019
Location: New Berlin, WI
We probably should also throw in Yelich with Burnes to make sure the Giants go for it...


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#6

Posted: May 29, 2019, 9:51 AM Post
Posts: 18514
No. Burnes has far too much upside to trade for a rental and Bumgarner isn't a top of the rotation pitched anymore. He'd be going from an extreme pitcher friendly park to an extreme hitter friendly park, so that transition may also not go well.

No interest in MadBum at that price. I personally don't like the guy, but even separating that from him professionally, no interest at that price.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#7

Posted: May 29, 2019, 10:14 AM Post
Posts: 2919
Ha


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#8

Posted: May 29, 2019, 10:43 AM Post
Posts: 3896
Jopal78! said:
Admittedly, it would be selling low on Burnes but he's not going to pitch in the rotation for Milwaukee this year barring a collapse by the team. The homerun ball makes it difficult to put him in as a late inning reliever in close games. The Giants are in desperate need of a rebuild and play in a pitcher's park, more probably true than not they would have keen interest in a young arm with upside like Burnes.

For the Brewers, you get a legitimate top of the rotation arm. You strengthen the entire pitching staff by slotting everyone back one step. Woodruff becomes a #2, Davies a #3 etc. Odd man out is the new swing man in the pen. Bumgarner is one of this generations best playoff pitchers and could be an absolute killer in the post season.



Absolutely not. I'll respect the idea, it makes a lot of sense and it sets us up very well this year, but despite his struggles this year, I think he's going to be as good as, if not better than Woody has been this year.

I don't want to pass up on 5 years of that. I really like MadBum, but I definitely do not want to give up Burnes. We're finally on the cusp of putting together a rotation of really talented, homegrown pitchers.


I get the other side, we don't know how many times we'll get to this point where we're competitive, we've gotta take risks, MadBum has been a dominant playoff pitcher.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#9

Posted: May 29, 2019, 10:50 AM Post
Posts: 3896
Brew4U said:
Image



I'm actually surprised there aren't more people on board with this.

I just read the first post. I'm against it, but I thought others would be for trading a young, relatively unproven pitcher for arguably the most proven post-season pitcher of this generation.

I don't like it, but I don't think it's that outrageous.


He is having a good season and pitching on a contender could very well give him a "Verlander-esque" shot in the arm. His K/BB ratio are up and his peripherals in general look pretty good.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#10

Posted: May 29, 2019, 11:13 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13213
Location: Milwaukee, WI
HiAndTight said:
Brew4U said:
Image



I'm actually surprised there aren't more people on board with this.

I just read the first post. I'm against it, but I thought others would be for trading a young, relatively unproven pitcher for arguably the most proven post-season pitcher of this generation.

I don't like it, but I don't think it's that outrageous.


He is having a good season and pitching on a contender could very well give him a "Verlander-esque" shot in the arm. His K/BB ratio are up and his peripherals in general look pretty good.


These are the types of moves that have the Brewers in a new city in 2030.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#11

Posted: May 29, 2019, 11:36 AM Post
Posts: 7996
I'd trade Barnes, Suppak, and a million other arms. But I wouldn't touch Burnes. Do you think the Bbacks regretted dealing Scherzer for Edwin Jackson rather than giving the kid time to grow and mature?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#12

Posted: May 29, 2019, 12:03 PM Post
Posts: 3896
Brew4U said:
HiAndTight said:
Brew4U said:
Image



I'm actually surprised there aren't more people on board with this.

I just read the first post. I'm against it, but I thought others would be for trading a young, relatively unproven pitcher for arguably the most proven post-season pitcher of this generation.

I don't like it, but I don't think it's that outrageous.


He is having a good season and pitching on a contender could very well give him a "Verlander-esque" shot in the arm. His K/BB ratio are up and his peripherals in general look pretty good.


These are the types of moves that have the Brewers in a new city in 2030.



Well, calling that hyperbole would be a bit of an uderstatement.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#13

Posted: May 29, 2019, 12:32 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8392
No, and a thousand other words that also mean no.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#14

Posted: May 29, 2019, 1:07 PM Post
Posts: 7008
Lol


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#15

Posted: May 29, 2019, 4:10 PM Post
Posts: 3896
Not surprised people are against this move, but I'm surprised there is this strong of a consensus.

Makes me curious who people would be willing to trade Burners for. Bauer? Would it take more like Verlander? I'd assume Cole wouldn't be considered since he's also set to be a FA.

So a TOR type pitcher with 2 or 3 years of team control?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#16

Posted: May 29, 2019, 5:32 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5478
Location: Phoenix, AZ
HiAndTight said:
Not surprised people are against this move, but I'm surprised there is this strong of a consensus.

Makes me curious who people would be willing to trade Burners for. Bauer? Would it take more like Verlander? I'd assume Cole wouldn't be considered since he's also set to be a FA.

So a TOR type pitcher with 2 or 3 years of team control?


I would trade for Burnes for the following:

Scherzer, Strasburg, Syndergaard, or deGrom

Does Burnes have the value to bring in any of these pitchers probably not right now.

I would prefer someone who has at least 2-4 years of team control. The only way I would want anyone for a half of a season is if they would be willing to sign an extension at a team friendly price. I don't want to go over $20m a season for anyone over the age of 30 if they don't already have a contract.

It could get interesting this off season if Strasburg opts out. If Strasburg opts out the Nationals will still be paying him from '20-'22 at $10m each year ouch.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#17

Posted: May 29, 2019, 7:20 PM Post
Posts: 1736
Location: Madison, WI
HiAndTight said:
Not surprised people are against this move, but I'm surprised there is this strong of a consensus.

Makes me curious who people would be willing to trade Burners for. Bauer? Would it take more like Verlander? I'd assume Cole wouldn't be considered since he's also set to be a FA.

So a TOR type pitcher with 2 or 3 years of team control?


I had typed in a whole bunch of stuff this morning with ERA, xFIP, road ERA numbers, etc and when submitting it got the internal server error and it was all lost. Some highlights were that Bumgarner's current ERA is higher than his xFIP which would be the first time that's happened since 2011. His road ERA this year is 3.73 and from 2016-2018 was 3.79. This year his xFIP has been a solid 3.66 but last year it was 4.32 and the previous year it was 4.07. Many consider Oracle (formerly AT&T) Park to be the most favorable environment for left handed pitchers in MLB. If you take his numbers from the last few year and put him as pitching half his games in Miller Park, when it comes to run prevention it's most likely he is a 3.80-4.20 ERA pitcher. The Giants put him on the block this off-season and he didn't stay there for long, likely because San Fran was asking for the moon and other interested clubs probably were all looking at the same numbers that I'm looking at. I think the vast majority of teams just don't see him as being anywhere near an ace level moving forward and value him as a solid pitcher but no longer a special pitcher. I did the brief number crunch on him this off-season (should have no problem locating the thread on page 2 of this forum), and taking the most optimistic numbers determined that Bumgarner would in no way be worth a top 100 hitting prospect but may be worth a back-end top 100 pitcher but, again, that was taking the most optimistic number and that was the off-season so team trading for him now would have already lost roughly 1/3 of the contribution.

Even with Burnes being terrible so far this season, a straight up deal for Bumgarner would make no sense for Milwaukee because there is still too much potential that exists with Burnes.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#18

Posted: May 30, 2019, 12:16 AM Post
Posts: 2306
Burnes seems like he's 2 years away and still there's no chance I'd do this. The pitch profile is that of a very good starter. I'm not interested in dealing those.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#19

Posted: May 30, 2019, 5:58 AM Post
Posts: 2925
I wouldn't but it probably takes Burnes to get it done. If Stearns wants a clear upgrade at a certain position he may very well have to part with Burnes or watch from the sidelines as the rest of the farm system isn't all that appealing. Their most appealing prospects are young guys in A ball and a pitcher coming off multiple Tommy John surgeries.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: Burnes for Bumgarner: would you do it?
#20

Posted: May 30, 2019, 6:21 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8658
Outlander said:
I wouldn't but it probably takes Burnes to get it done. If Stearns wants a clear upgrade at a certain position he may very well have to part with Burnes or watch from the sidelines as the rest of the farm system isn't all that appealing. Their most appealing prospects are young guys in A ball and a pitcher coming off multiple Tommy John surgeries.


Take a look at the hauls teams have typically gotten back for rentals the last few years. Other than the stupid deal the Cubs did for Chapman, the returns haven't been astronomical. There is no doubt in my mind at least that if the Brewers feel they need to make an upgrade, they have the currency to get it done without dealing guys like Burnes and Hiura.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  [ 81 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
cron
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test