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Sell Mode: Now Buy Mode, We Got Lyles, Pomeranz, Black, and Faria!!

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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: One Week to Decide...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 7:24 PM Post
Posts: 4191
Brewcrewin07 said:

You're crazy...that kind of an offer gets them hung up on by me for either one of those guys. Not to mention if Stearns traded either one of them before their final year, the fans would run him out of town with pitchforks. He would be the most hated man in Wisconsin sports history...guaranteed.


So if you were offered those 4 prospects/players for Hader...you'd pass? That's....incredible. No GM in the game passes on that type of talent for a left handed reliever. Even a really, really good one. That is just....absurdly short-sighted. And stop with the "fans would run Stearns out," nonsense.

Not all Brewers fans are this naive. They understand that sometimes you make trades. And given that Tatis a 20 year old SS who's production isn't far beyond Yelich, Paddock would be the Brewers best starting pitcher this year, Gore is the top left handed pitching prospect in baseball and then you throw in a high upside 23 year old switch hitting catcher already playing in the big leagues......I don't think it'd take long for fans to put down those stupid pitch forks.

For the record, the Padres are the ones turning that down, not the Brewers. And the Brewers would likely hear giggling or outright laughter on the other end of the phone before it was hung up. I'd take Tatis for Yelich straight up. And you wouldn't do Tatis and 3 other extremely valuable players for Hader? [tired]


I saw a tweet about the Brewers trading Aguilar to the Rays and someone on there suggested Snell AND one of Honeywell, McKay, Liberatore PLUS Baez.

Was that you by chance?


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: One Week to Decide...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 7:27 PM Post
Posts: 19243
Brewcrewin07 said:
I will never get the love and absolute fascination so many here have for "prospects". Again, that's ALL they are...It maddens me to think so many want to stake the Brewers future on prospects that may or may not amount to anything. When possible, you ALWAYS acquire proven major league ready talent. If it costs you the entire farm but sets up your team for the next couple of years(like dealing for Thor and his control), then you absolutely 10000% do it. No questions asked. Also, I get tired of hearing the "moose and Grandal won't be here next year" mantra. NO ONE knows that. No one knows what Stearns and Mark A are thinking or have discussed internally. Maybe they are both back(I think it's possible), maybe one is and one isn't, maybe neither of them are, but to state it as 100% fact that they won't be really wrankles me. You have ZERO proof of that, don't state it factually until it is a fact.


Your disdain for prospects is getting really over the top.

These players were all "prospects" in the last 3 years:

Cody Bellinger, Ronald Acuna, Rafael Devers, Keston Hiura, Walker Buehler...I could go on and on.

Sometimes "proven" talent doesn't always pan out either -- age, regression, etc. can easily end a veteran's career while the "prospect" goes on to have a very successful career.

A small market team can't operate the way you want them to. You'd be perennially rebuilding from a gutted farm system and veteran contracts you can't afford.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 7:47 PM Post
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Location: California
Man if Aguilar for Honeywell was on the table I wouldn’t get off the phone until the trade was official.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: One Week to Decide...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 7:57 PM Post
Posts: 4191
Oxy said:
HiAndTight said:

Yes, every single player ever was a prospect. Some people can be upset that fans like building teams the most logical and efficient way, I get annoyed when I hear the same things over and over again about how you ALWAYS trade the prospects for the proven MLB talent every single time.


There's 100 years of trades that tells you that's just a ridiculous statement. Hell, even when it works it can end up being a historically bad trade like Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz. Alexander had a CC like 2nd half. Smoltz was a franchise-altering pitcher.


It just comes down to this, people who propose such things doesn't understand that it's not a matter of any one prospect. It's about building a system and out of that, trying to find the few guys who emerge. Most guys won't. They don't need to. There are a lot of minor leaguers. You only need 25 guys on a MLB roster.


Ten years ago I understood the "Go for it NOW" mentality because of the sheer futility of the franchise for the 18-25 years before that time. The town and the stadium NEEDED playoff baseball. I think the last 10 years of being "okay" and touching the playoffs a few times actually makes it easier to re-build and do things the right way. The town is still desperate for a WS opportunity, but the fanbase is strong enough to wait a few years to make it happen and hopefully make it happen repeatedly. That wasn't the case in 2006-2008.

The ages of Uecker and Selig is really the only motivation that might push the organization to sell out for the moment.



Agreed. Also, those teams seemed to play below their talent levels or what was expected out of them. It was easier to picture a lineup with Hardy, Hart, Weeks, Prince, Braun, Hall at a time with Sheets and Gallardo needing that elite pitcher like CC.

Also, remember that was when we had that team in AA that just kinda developed at once. They weren't all highly touted prospects, Laporta was a reach according to most, but it was almost the ideal group to trade from.


There have to be rational discussions on this both ways though. If you dismiss out of hand the idea of trading a guy like Hader for two current STUDS on the Padres and then an elite prospect(and a former top 15 overall catcher) you're not having a reality-based discussion. It's the same as saying you'd never trade ANY prospects no matter what.

I wish I was of the opinion that it was worth buying right now. I certainly don't like not wanting the Brewers to add. But what I hate even more are those periods when they bottom out. A good GM and a well run team, again, the Ray and A's are two that I can think of that often sell when they're technically a contender, but they know they're not on the same level as the other teams, that's the type of team that can be consistently competitive, replenish it's farm system and then invest more in certain years than others.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:06 PM Post
Posts: 4191
Warning Track Power said:
Man if Aguilar for Honeywell was on the table I wouldn’t get off the phone until the trade was official.


Wouldn't you do that for any of those players? Even the "throw in" Baez I'd do in a heartbeat.

I'd be constantly verifying though that they didn't have a Brett Honeywell, brother of Brent who they drafted in the 36th round or something, or a Brandon McKay.


If the Rays were in the NLC I think they'd be a perennial contender. Especially if they had the payroll we have. We should use them as a better barometer of when to buy and sell than the Yankees during "The Bosses" tenure when it was just all in every year.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
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Posts: 504
Location: Chicago
They’re not going to break up their team, plain and simple. There are too many good players with multiple seasons of team control. That would be Stearns taking a huge gamble with not just his job with the Brewers but his career in baseball as the stakes.

The fan base won’t suport it; the owner won’t suport it. Fantasy land


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:14 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
They’re not going to break up their team, plain and simple. There are too many good players with multiple seasons of team control.



Two of our top 3 or 4 position players are free agents after the season.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:32 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
Jopal78! said:
They’re not going to break up their team, plain and simple. There are too many good players with multiple seasons of team control.



Two of our top 3 or 4 position players are free agents after the season.


Yeah at the very least they could trade Grandal and Moose. Tell the fans you'll try and re-sign them in the off season.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:49 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
Jopal78! said:
They’re not going to break up their team, plain and simple. There are too many good players with multiple seasons of team control.



Two of our top 3 or 4 position players are free agents after the season.


By break up their team I mean trade away major league players with team control.

Nonetheless, I think they keep Moustakas and Grandal. By trading Moutakas you’re throwing in the towel on 2019. While the front office has to be pragmatic; I think they’ll roll the bones and hope to get lucky before throwing in the towel by trading Moustakas

Without a contending team in dire need of a catcher and his 18 million dollar salary there isn’t much point to trading Grandal. The Brewers aren’t going to pay a team to take Grandal’s salary and, moreover, if a team is taking on close to 9 million dollars in salary they’re not going to send the Brewers anything of note.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 8:56 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:02 PM Post
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Location: California
trwi7 said:
Jopal78! said:
They’re not going to break up their team, plain and simple. There are too many good players with multiple seasons of team control.



Two of our top 3 or 4 position players are free agents after the season.

Yeah that’s accurate...to a point. In reality it’s our 3rd and 4th best position players are FAs. Additionally, I’m of the mind that Piña and Grandal are a lot closer given Grandal’s propensity for rather poor receiving. Optics over advanced stats.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:03 PM Post
Posts: 1844
Brew4U said:
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.


I'm literally going to be worried about you and your mental health if they end up buying..especially buying big.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:05 PM Post
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I just don't know how they can buy big without giving up Hiura and I would be shocked if they did that. In other words, I don't think they'll go big. If they buy it will be some spare parts (e.g. reliever, low end starter, utility dude)

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:06 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
Brew4U said:
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.


I'm literally going to be worried about you and your mental health if they end up buying..especially buying big.


[laughing] You’re becoming the next joke around here and you don’t even realize it. If they buy, they buy.. but I don’t think it’s the smart play. Honestly, the way your cry on these message boards, we should probably check in with you in August 1st and we haven’t Hiura traded for elite pitching.


Last edited by Brew4U on July 25, 2019, 9:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:06 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
Brew4U said:
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.


I'm literally going to be worried about you and your mental health if they end up buying..especially buying big.


Oh for heaven's sake, give it a rest. People are allowed to have a different philosophy on what the team should do.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:08 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.



Moustakas is their second best hitter and an All Star. Shaw hit under .175 for the first three months of the season before being optioned to the minors, but yeah interchangeable....

9 million, 6 million it still meaningless because no contender on the surface are in that dire of a need for a catcher, and taking on a rental player who is the 4th highest paid catcher kind of smells like the return would be minimal


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:09 PM Post
Posts: 548
Did I really read that someone would turn down Tatis, Paddock, Gore and Mejia for Hader.

Wow...that might be the dumbest take I have read on this board


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:09 PM Post
Posts: 19243
homer said:
I just don't know how they can buy big without giving up Hiura and I would be shocked if they did that. In other words, I don't think they'll go big. If they buy it will be some spare parts (e.g. reliever, low end starter, utility dude)


Agreed with this. If they're going big, it's Hiura...and I don't see that.

Probably a pen arm or two, maybe a middle of the rotation arm or rental shortstop.


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:17 PM Post
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Posts: 13681
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Jopal78! said:
Brew4U said:
If you trade Moose, you just play Shaw. It’s not going to be much of a drop off.

And a team taking on Grandal would pay him about $6M.



Moustakas is their second best hitter and an All Star. Shaw hit under .175 for the first three months of the season before being optioned to the minors, but yeah interchangeable....

9 million, 6 million it still meaningless because no contender on the surface are in that dire of a need for a catcher, and taking on a rental player who is the 4th highest paid catcher kind of smells like the return would be minimal


Moustakas put together a very nice first half. I would bet a regression to his career averages is near. I would also bet on Shaw rebounding to be more of the player he has been too. Like I said, I don’t believe the drop off would be that severe that you don’t take a look at offers.

In regards to Grandal, there are plenty of contenders that he would be an upgrade for. Now, moving catchers is different but I’m sure if made available, they could find a fit. $6 mil isn’t much, even if they Brewers kicked in a couple.

Now, do I think it’ll happen? No. Because they won’t want to anger fans after telling them they’re “going for it”. But most fans are pretty clueless in regards to the situation the Brewers are in.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Sell Mode: Sale is back on...
Posted: July 25, 2019, 9:32 PM Post
Posts: 1844
mlloyd10 said:
Did I really read that someone would turn down Tatis, Paddock, Gore and Mejia for Hader.

Wow...that might be the dumbest take I have read on this board


Yes..I said that..go ahead and think its dumb all you want..Im just not selling ANY major contributor to the major league club until Yelich's control is up..just my philosophy..im doing whatever I can to capitalize on that window now..Hader is a big part of that..heck im trying to resign Moose and Grandal as well and make a HUGE offer to Geritt Cole or another top FA pitcher.

And besides..how much have those players helped the Padres this year? What's their record again?


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