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Shaw for Sano

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Offline  Shaw for Sano
#1

Posted: June 27, 2019, 6:44 PM Post
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Posts: 1033
Shaw has outperformed Sano the past two seasons and then fell apart and has been optioned. Sano is hitting under .200, is striking out too much, has two right-handed hitting slugging teammates outperforming him, and batted 9th in the order today. When Marwin Gonzalez returns, Sano may be the odd man out.

They have nearly identical service time.

Perhaps a change of scenery will help both.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#2

Posted: June 27, 2019, 7:42 PM Post
Posts: 82
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Nah, I don't hate the thought, but the lefty power bat with a better glove and overall Major League history (and without the character/maturity concerns) is the one I'd rather have.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#3

Posted: June 28, 2019, 8:53 AM Post
Posts: 1736
Location: Madison, WI
Shaw has been approximately twice as valuable as Sano to this point. Shaw has been terrible this year, Sano has been terrible this year and was terrible last year too. IMO, this is a valid idea for both sides, but the Twins would need to include a couple solid prospects to make this deal an even one. And I can't see the Twins dedicating prospect capital on a struggling player who might provide an offensive upgrade but wouldn't provide any upgrade at all if he continues to struggle. It probably does make the most sense as a straight up deal, but the Brewers just give up way too much when looking at the historical WAR figures to think that they would want to do this.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#4

Posted: June 30, 2019, 8:38 AM Post
Posts: 12078
JosephC said:
Shaw has been approximately twice as valuable as Sano to this point. Shaw has been terrible this year, Sano has been terrible this year and was terrible last year too. IMO, this is a valid idea for both sides, but the Twins would need to include a couple solid prospects to make this deal an even one. And I can't see the Twins dedicating prospect capital on a struggling player who might provide an offensive upgrade but wouldn't provide any upgrade at all if he continues to struggle. It probably does make the most sense as a straight up deal, but the Brewers just give up way too much when looking at the historical WAR figures to think that they would want to do this.


Sano hasn't been nearly as bad as Shaw. In fact, in some respects he's been quite good. He's slugging .556. Shaw's slugging .290. The strikeouts for Sano are alarmingly high, but he's slugging .628 against LHP. If you could get him straight up for Shaw, you do that in a heartbeat.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#5

Posted: June 30, 2019, 1:54 PM Post
Posts: 397
JohnBriggs12 said:
JosephC said:
Shaw has been approximately twice as valuable as Sano to this point. Shaw has been terrible this year, Sano has been terrible this year and was terrible last year too. IMO, this is a valid idea for both sides, but the Twins would need to include a couple solid prospects to make this deal an even one. And I can't see the Twins dedicating prospect capital on a struggling player who might provide an offensive upgrade but wouldn't provide any upgrade at all if he continues to struggle. It probably does make the most sense as a straight up deal, but the Brewers just give up way too much when looking at the historical WAR figures to think that they would want to do this.


Sano hasn't been nearly as bad as Shaw. In fact, in some respects he's been quite good. He's slugging .556. Shaw's slugging .290. The strikeouts for Sano are alarmingly high, but he's slugging .628 against LHP. If you could get him straight up for Shaw, you do that in a heartbeat.


I'm not so sure Stearns would take Sano for Shaw. Sano is striking out 41% of the time against LH pitching and has been even worse against RH. Defense is also a problem. Shaw has done better in the past and this year both are horrible. No deal.


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Online  Re: Shaw for Sano
#6

Posted: June 30, 2019, 5:13 PM Post
Posts: 11570
Doesn’t Shaw have an option for next year too? I’m not trading him unless one overpays his perceived current value.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#7

Posted: July 01, 2019, 6:08 AM Post
Posts: 1736
Location: Madison, WI
JohnBriggs12 said:
JosephC said:
Shaw has been approximately twice as valuable as Sano to this point. Shaw has been terrible this year, Sano has been terrible this year and was terrible last year too. IMO, this is a valid idea for both sides, but the Twins would need to include a couple solid prospects to make this deal an even one. And I can't see the Twins dedicating prospect capital on a struggling player who might provide an offensive upgrade but wouldn't provide any upgrade at all if he continues to struggle. It probably does make the most sense as a straight up deal, but the Brewers just give up way too much when looking at the historical WAR figures to think that they would want to do this.


Sano hasn't been nearly as bad as Shaw. In fact, in some respects he's been quite good. He's slugging .556. Shaw's slugging .290. The strikeouts for Sano are alarmingly high, but he's slugging .628 against LHP. If you could get him straight up for Shaw, you do that in a heartbeat.


Sano hit two home runs on the 28th and another on the 29th. When I made the post, Sano's slash line was .195/.278/.483/.761. Sano has an OBP of .287 since the beginning of 2018. Sano entered this season with 3.066 years of service time and to this point has been a 5.9 bWAR and 6.4 fWAR player. Shaw entered this season with 3.088 years of service time and to this point has been a 10.7 bWAR and 9.0 fWAR player. Maybe Shaw has lost it and will not longer be an effective MLB player, but the poor on-base skills and bad defense don't make me real optimistic about Sano either. He's about 3 years younger, that's about the only real positive thing I can say about him.


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Online  Re: Shaw for Sano
#8

Posted: July 01, 2019, 7:52 AM Post
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Posts: 5483
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Sano is really a 1B/DH type. It would be fine to trade Shaw for Sano if you are looking at putting him at 1B. He should really be a DH and I don't see Stearns doing this trade because of this.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#9

Posted: July 01, 2019, 10:34 PM Post
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nate82 said:
Sano is really a 1B/DH type. It would be fine to trade Shaw for Sano if you are looking at putting him at 1B. He should really be a DH and I don't see Stearns doing this trade because of this.

Information I’ve seen shows Sano to be an average or even slightly above average third baseman this season.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#10

Posted: July 02, 2019, 5:13 AM Post
Posts: 12078
JosephC said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
JosephC said:
Shaw has been approximately twice as valuable as Sano to this point. Shaw has been terrible this year, Sano has been terrible this year and was terrible last year too. IMO, this is a valid idea for both sides, but the Twins would need to include a couple solid prospects to make this deal an even one. And I can't see the Twins dedicating prospect capital on a struggling player who might provide an offensive upgrade but wouldn't provide any upgrade at all if he continues to struggle. It probably does make the most sense as a straight up deal, but the Brewers just give up way too much when looking at the historical WAR figures to think that they would want to do this.


Sano hasn't been nearly as bad as Shaw. In fact, in some respects he's been quite good. He's slugging .556. Shaw's slugging .290. The strikeouts for Sano are alarmingly high, but he's slugging .628 against LHP. If you could get him straight up for Shaw, you do that in a heartbeat.


Sano hit two home runs on the 28th and another on the 29th. When I made the post, Sano's slash line was .195/.278/.483/.761. Sano has an OBP of .287 since the beginning of 2018. Sano entered this season with 3.066 years of service time and to this point has been a 5.9 bWAR and 6.4 fWAR player. Shaw entered this season with 3.088 years of service time and to this point has been a 10.7 bWAR and 9.0 fWAR player. Maybe Shaw has lost it and will not longer be an effective MLB player, but the poor on-base skills and bad defense don't make me real optimistic about Sano either. He's about 3 years younger, that's about the only real positive thing I can say about him.


Shaw is such a base clogger that his on base skills were greatly diminished in value.


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Online  Re: Shaw for Sano
#11

Posted: August 25, 2019, 8:17 PM Post
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Posts: 13285
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I think I’d take Sano.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#12

Posted: August 26, 2019, 3:07 PM Post
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Posts: 1208
I'll keep Shaw. I really feel like he must have something physically wrong\changed since last season. Even in spring, the guy was striking out at an alarming rate.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#13

Posted: August 26, 2019, 4:12 PM Post
Posts: 397
NYChez said:
nate82 said:
Sano is really a 1B/DH type. It would be fine to trade Shaw for Sano if you are looking at putting him at 1B. He should really be a DH and I don't see Stearns doing this trade because of this.

Information I’ve seen shows Sano to be an average or even slightly above average third baseman this season.


Last three years: Sano at 3B (rtot) -16, -6, -10. A butcher at 3B. Avg. at best at 1B and this year -16. Shaw is by far the superior fielder, but Sano is slightly better OBP and $2M cheaper.


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Online  Re: Shaw for Sano
#14

Posted: August 26, 2019, 4:21 PM Post
Posts: 2969
wntrtxn21 said:
NYChez said:
nate82 said:
Sano is really a 1B/DH type. It would be fine to trade Shaw for Sano if you are looking at putting him at 1B. He should really be a DH and I don't see Stearns doing this trade because of this.

Information I’ve seen shows Sano to be an average or even slightly above average third baseman this season.


Last three years: Sano at 3B (rtot) -16, -6, -10. A butcher at 3B. Avg. at best at 1B and this year -16. Shaw is by far the superior fielder, but Sano is slightly better OBP and $2M cheaper.


I’ll take Sano.


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Offline  Re: Shaw for Sano
#15

Posted: September 01, 2019, 10:09 AM Post
Posts: 2673
nate82 said:
Sano is really a 1B/DH type. It would be fine to trade Shaw for Sano if you are looking at putting him at 1B. He should really be a DH and I don't see Stearns doing this trade because of this.

1. The numbers may say one thing re: Sano's defense, but he passes the eye test much better than you'd think, plus he's among the best at the barehanded charge play. He's no Gold Glover, but he's a long way from being Ryan Braun at 3B.

2. To the "conventional wisdom" point in boldface -- not an illogical surface-level conclusion -- a couple years ago the Twins played him at 1B and it was an unmitigated disaster defensively AND offensively -- enough so that they moved him back to 3B in spite of any previous concerns about how he profiled (physically and tools-wise).

Career numbers indicate Sano has greater raw power -- and he can hit the ball a mile -- corroborated by his higher SLG-aided OPS, while Shaw's clearly better defensively, drives in runs at a greater rate, and is a little more well-rounded as a hitter, albeit a little less spectacular.


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