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Relief Pitching Options

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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#61

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:08 PM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
One additional comment, if the Giants rattle off a 8 wins in 10 game stretch over the first week and a half...they might not sell. The are currently thumping the Rockies in game 1 of a doubleheader today. It's possible playing the Giants now was simply bad timing...kinda like when we faced the Marlins in June.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#62

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:09 PM Post
Posts: 4814
Location: Madison, WI
I also am not terribly high on Dubon. Sure it looks like he'll be a competent MLB player but I don't see any kind of star or "+ player" in him. Essentially on the same level/tier as an Arcia is giving you. It's good to have him as insurance at all IF spots especially as a potential Arcia replacement if he falls off more but my guess is that we would not end up kicking ourselves for letting him go. It's not like I want to trade him or anything, I'd love to have him around and hope he could be more than I'm saying, but you have to give up something in a trade.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#63

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:14 PM Post
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Posts: 13681
Location: Milwaukee, WI
When Dubon pinch hit the other day, he looked like he just fell out of his mom with that baby face. Couldn’t believe how young he looked. And he is tiny. I thought Arcia is small but man, there is nothing to Dubon.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#64

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:28 PM Post
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Posts: 504
Location: Chicago
KeithStone53151 said:
Dubon is a better pure hitter than Spange/Saladino/freitas/etc...he also was returning from most of a missed season and wasn't as good in April/May. He was better than all the guys you listed in June/July, he also has more speed and is a better defender than any of them. Dubon has added strenght since 2017, and you are cherry picking as 2017 was by far the worst of his career. Dubon is over a 300 hitter over his minor league career and should hit for average and therefore get on base at the mlb level. The Brewers could sure use a guy that gets on base at a high clip as we have plenty of bats that can bring him around to score.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you've seen him play with your own eyes. All I have to go by is the stat sheet; and at every level of the minor leagues his numbers are bested by players who couldn't hit at the big league level. Importantly too, he might hit .300 and get on base in the minor leagues but there isn't Cole Hamels, Jon Lester, Luis Castillo, Sonny Gray, Jack Flaherty, Adam Wainwright, James Taillon type competition in the minor leagues. To suggest he did it in the minor leagues against lesser competition in no way proves he is going to do it against the very best pitchers he's ever seen.

It's very possible the bat could somehow blossom at the major league level. However, there are some pretty legitimate question marks about that, as well as where he fits in on the Milwaukee team going forward. Unless the Brewers give up on Orlando Arcia his only role in the near future would be that of a utility bench player.

If Will Smith is the difference between fighting for the 2nd wild card or playing out the string in September, I don't think Dubon's potential keeps him around past 7/31.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#65

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:35 PM Post
Posts: 1844
I mean who says Smith just has to be a rental?? Why couldn't they try to resign him next year?? He's a RP, I mean how much would he make?? 2 yrs...24 million?? That seems reasonable.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#66

Posted: July 15, 2019, 1:37 PM Post
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Brewcrewin07 said:
I mean who says Smith just has to be a rental?? Why couldn't they try to resign him next year?? He's a RP, I mean how much would he make?? 2 yrs...24 million?? That seems reasonable.


The idea of the Brewers resigning him doesn't add to his value or not make him a rental. Sure, they could sign him, but every other team would have the same opportunity. If they deal for him, it has to be with the idea that it is for the rest of this season and that's it.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#67

Posted: July 15, 2019, 3:12 PM Post
Posts: 19243
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
I mean who says Smith just has to be a rental?? Why couldn't they try to resign him next year?? He's a RP, I mean how much would he make?? 2 yrs...24 million?? That seems reasonable.


The idea of the Brewers resigning him doesn't add to his value or not make him a rental. Sure, they could sign him, but every other team would have the same opportunity. If they deal for him, it has to be with the idea that it is for the rest of this season and that's it.


This is all true, but there is something to be said for the current team possibly having an advantage in some cases. I doubt Moose is here now if we don't trade for him. Smith always struck me as someone who liked being here.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#68

Posted: July 15, 2019, 5:53 PM Post
Posts: 3106
If all it takes to land one of the best pitchers in baseball is Dubon, we do that that now.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#69

Posted: July 15, 2019, 6:35 PM Post
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Dubon and Ray might have to be traded to get smith.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#70

Posted: July 15, 2019, 6:39 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
brewmann04 said:
Dubon and Ray might have to be traded to get smith.


Awesome. Can’t wait to see what we fetch for Grandal, Moose, Chacin and possibly others then.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#71

Posted: July 15, 2019, 8:01 PM Post
Posts: 715
Dubon for Smith I’ll do it for sure if I think the team is good enough to be buyers


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#72

Posted: July 15, 2019, 8:06 PM Post
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i think the Giants ask for a second player.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#73

Posted: July 15, 2019, 9:30 PM Post
Posts: 1794
Location: Madison, WI
Giants would definitely ask for another player. But I have Dubon's prospect surplus value at 7.4 million and I'd figure Smith to be valued at around 10 million in surplus value in a trade...so Dubon should make up well over 50% of the value heading to the Giants. If the Giants want upside, they could ask for Bello as being a second player and that would be pretty fair...the Brewers might want to ship them someone like Erceg or Stokes as a second player and the Giant's 40-man roster aspects could play into that.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#74

Posted: July 15, 2019, 11:57 PM Post
Posts: 3106
brewmann04 said:
Dubon and Ray might have to be traded to get smith.


Easy yes for Stearns.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#75

Posted: July 18, 2019, 12:45 PM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
I was just cruising through fan forums for the Giants. They only seem interested in trading Will Smith to us if they get Hiura or Turang in return. SMH


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#76

Posted: July 18, 2019, 12:59 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
I was just cruising through fan forums for the Giants. They only seem interested in trading Will Smith to us if they get Hiura or Turang in return. SMH


Smith is good, but he's still a rental reliever. They're dreaming.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#77

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:33 PM Post
Posts: 588
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
KeithStone53151 said:
I was just cruising through fan forums for the Giants. They only seem interested in trading Will Smith to us if they get Hiura or Turang in return. SMH


Smith is good, but he's still a rental reliever. They're dreaming.


Yeah, this is crazy to me! I also saw that the Giants site "Around the Foghorn" is suggesting a trade of Dubon, Grisham and Rasmussen for Will Smith. WHAT??!! No way in hell I'm trading that much for a rental reliever. At that price, they better be throwing in Mad Bum as well.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#78

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:44 PM Post
Posts: 548
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#79

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:45 PM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
madtownhawk said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
KeithStone53151 said:
I was just cruising through fan forums for the Giants. They only seem interested in trading Will Smith to us if they get Hiura or Turang in return. SMH


Smith is good, but he's still a rental reliever. They're dreaming.


Yeah, this is crazy to me! I also saw that the Giants site "Around the Foghorn" is suggesting a trade of Dubon, Grisham and Rasmussen for Will Smith. WHAT??!! No way in hell I'm trading that much for a rental reliever. At that price, they better be throwing in Mad Bum as well.


Gotta love fan forums man. I get that someone is going to overpay because everyone wants this guy, but I don't see anyone stupidly overpaying...which is what that would be.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#80

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:47 PM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


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