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Relief Pitching Options

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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#81

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:48 PM Post
Posts: 588
OK - so last year, we traded Kodi Medeiros and Wilber Perez (who?) for Joakim Soria at the deadline. Now, I realize that Soria isn't quite as highly thought of as Will Smith this year, but Soria had 16 saves and a mid 2's ERA with the White Sox at the time of the trade. So, we aren't talking about a mid-game reliever either.

So, if that was the cost to get Soria last year, is it really going to cost us THAT much more to get Will Smith this year? Dubon and Grisham are probably two of our top three prospects right now (taking Hiura out of the equation of course) along with Turang. And I'd also put Rasmussen in our Top 10. There is simply NO WAY I'm trading three of our top 10 prospects for Will Smith - who we are only going to have for 2 months, and has already started his typical 2nd half of the season tumble! Please, please don't do this Stearns!


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#82

Posted: July 18, 2019, 2:54 PM Post
Posts: 588
KeithStone53151 said:
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


Exactly! Don't look now, but Trent Grisham might just work his way back up into the next Top 100 prospect lists. In fact, I'd be surprised if he doesn't. And while I know the projections are still across the board on Dubon, I still really like his versatility and I just think that kid is driven to be an every day big leaguer. Honestly, I'd have a major issue even just giving up one of those guys for a 2 month reliever rental! I know it costs prospects to get better this time of year, but if we are going to go get a reliever rental - I'd rather shop more in the "thrift" bin and find another Soria or Swarzak type guy from the past two seasons.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#83

Posted: July 18, 2019, 3:13 PM Post
Posts: 2043
madtownhawk said:
KeithStone53151 said:
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


Exactly! Don't look now, but Trent Grisham might just work his way back up into the next Top 100 prospect lists. In fact, I'd be surprised if he doesn't. And while I know the projections are still across the board on Dubon, I still really like his versatility and I just think that kid is driven to be an every day big leaguer. Honestly, I'd have a major issue even just giving up one of those guys for a 2 month reliever rental! I know it costs prospects to get better this time of year, but if we are going to go get a reliever rental - I'd rather shop more in the "thrift" bin and find another Soria or Swarzak type guy from the past two seasons.


Can we actually keep a guy or two with a nice BB to K ratio?


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#84

Posted: July 18, 2019, 5:45 PM Post
Posts: 548
KeithStone53151 said:
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


So last two months > crappy 2016, 2017, 2018 and the start of 2019....got it


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#85

Posted: July 18, 2019, 6:48 PM Post
Posts: 1794
Location: Madison, WI
KeithStone53151 said:
I was just cruising through fan forums for the Giants. They only seem interested in trading Will Smith to us if they get Hiura or Turang in return. SMH


I wouldn't be in favor of this trade, but Turang and a fringe prospect for Madison Bumgarner and Will Smith would probably be a pretty fair trade, numbers-wise.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#86

Posted: July 18, 2019, 8:20 PM Post
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Posts: 9892
I really wonder if the Giants will be really moving him but wonder who DS is looking to move.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#87

Posted: July 18, 2019, 10:46 PM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
mlloyd10 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


So last two months > crappy 2016, 2017, 2018 and the start of 2019....got it


Yes and no, grisham has been extremely young at every minor league stop. Also development is not always linear, and this sustained performance could be a sign grisham turned a corner and this is the new norm. Other teams scouting would probably have that answer. My primary point, there are a lot of valid reasons he struggled previous years... and different valid reasons he has improved. There's a grisham thread in the minor league forums with posts from people far more knowledgeable than i on grisham... if you're interested.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#88

Posted: July 19, 2019, 12:24 AM Post
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mlloyd10 said:
KeithStone53151 said:
mlloyd10 said:
Dubon and Grisham for Smith is actually fair value, but i'd like to use Dubon as the 2nd piece in a Ray trade.


Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


So last two months > crappy 2016, 2017, 2018 and the start of 2019....got it

Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#89

Posted: July 19, 2019, 5:08 AM Post
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And That said:
Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


That is what happens when you stare at batting average numbers and ignore everything else in an effort to make a point.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#90

Posted: July 19, 2019, 6:17 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
And That said:
Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


That is what happens when you stare at batting average numbers and ignore everything else in an effort to make a point.

Coming into this year he has always posted a better than league average wRC+ and an on-base percentage in the .350 to .360 range. Less encouraging was the fact that his slugging percentage had been sub-.350 every season since A-ball. I think the thing that was easy to forget at times (myself included) is he has been between 2.5 to 3.0 years younger than league average at every stop. I personally wasn’t sure if he’d ever develop enough power to be an MLB regular at a corner outfield spot. That is starting to look like a much sillier view now. I’m happy to wear one in the case of Grisham, I hope someday we have fun at our own expense with a BF.net version of “freezing cold takes” while Grisham rakes as an everyday outfielder at Miller Park.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#91

Posted: July 19, 2019, 6:45 AM Post
Posts: 548
And That said:
mlloyd10 said:
KeithStone53151 said:

Maybe if you look at the trade value site and completely ignore the last 2 months of production...


So last two months > crappy 2016, 2017, 2018 and the start of 2019....got it

Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


YES - CRAPPY

2016 - .690 OPS
2017 - .708 OPS
2018 - .693 OPS

Between 2016-2018 he struck out 29% of the time - you cant have an OPS under .800 and strike out that percentage of time.

All good if he turns it around and live up to the 1st rd pick, but lets not judge him on 2-3 months. If this current version is the player that he will become, than yes, its an over pay.

There was a reason why he dropped completely off the top 100 sites after the 2016 season. If you are a good/elite prospect, you never drop off sites.


Last edited by mlloyd10 on July 19, 2019, 6:49 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#92

Posted: July 19, 2019, 6:48 AM Post
Posts: 548
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
And That said:
Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


That is what happens when you stare at batting average numbers and ignore everything else in an effort to make a point.


Not really


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#93

Posted: July 19, 2019, 6:56 AM Post
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Posts: 13681
Location: Milwaukee, WI
How’s Grisham as a relief pitcher?

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#94

Posted: July 19, 2019, 7:05 AM Post
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Posts: 9564
mlloyd10 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
And That said:
Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


That is what happens when you stare at batting average numbers and ignore everything else in an effort to make a point.


Not really


Trust me ... I share in the skepticism, especially for a kid with as small of a AAA sample size as what he has right now. The quality ABs and OBP have always been there with him, though, and I just think those are more important with a young, developing player. Grisham has been kicking around the minor league system for awhile, so I get why the "prospect shine" has worn off. It's nice to see him fulfilling that potential that made him a 1st round pick.

I agree, though, Brew4u. He's not a relief pitcher. I apologize for participating in yet another thread that is going off the rails.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#95

Posted: July 19, 2019, 7:30 AM Post
Posts: 19243
Shane Greene, Will Smith and Ken Giles would be my top 3 choices in no particular order. I'd take whichever costs the least.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#96

Posted: July 19, 2019, 7:36 AM Post
Posts: 548
Nick Anderson from Marlins 29yrs old - 4.24 ERA, but 2.77 FIP, 2.97 xFIP 14.4 SO/9


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#97

Posted: July 19, 2019, 8:40 AM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
mlloyd10 said:
And That said:
Crappy? Grisham has literally never had a below average offensive season.


YES - CRAPPY

2016 - .690 OPS
2017 - .708 OPS
2018 - .693 OPS

Between 2016-2018 he struck out 29% of the time - you cant have an OPS under .800 and strike out that percentage of time.

All good if he turns it around and live up to the 1st rd pick, but lets not judge him on 2-3 months. If this current version is the player that he will become, than yes, its an over pay.

There was a reason why he dropped completely off the top 100 sites after the 2016 season. If you are a good/elite prospect, you never drop off sites.


Grisham has always been very young for his level, he hasn't had the best numbers...but the Brewers continued moving him up for a reason. They clearly saw enough from him that moving him up made sense. And again, development isn't always linear...or at least doesn't always show up that way in the box score. It's not surprising that all those lists would drop a guy off that isn't posting big numbers...but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not talented and capable of bringing it back. Also, rather than go on another rant about these lists...I'll just note that there are many former Brewer prospects playing for other teams that already have or very soon will(I'm looking at you Garrett Cooper) make an all-star game at the mlb level...that have never made a top 100 list.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#98

Posted: July 19, 2019, 8:42 AM Post
Posts: 5178
Location: New Berlin, WI
adambr2 said:
Shane Greene, Will Smith and Ken Giles would be my top 3 choices in no particular order. I'd take whichever costs the least.


I like Shane Greene, but I wouldn't pay a ton for him. Also despite his splits this year...his arsenal plays significantly better against RH hitters. You reeeeeeally wouldn't want him pitching to Bellinger, Rizzo, or Freeman in a critical spot. Not saying we wouldn't want him, if we get him...be prepared for that.


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
#99

Posted: July 19, 2019, 8:54 AM Post
Posts: 3060
Ian Kennedy should be an arm for the pen that we should be in on. He’s vastly overpaid, but is a veteran starter turned closer, that is having a good year. Imo, we need 2 additional late inning arms, and we could get this guy for a very low prospect return if we take on a significant portion of his salary. He’s owed ~ 5.5 this year and 16.5 next.

Kennedy & 9.5 > T Williams & Barnes


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Offline  Re: Relief Pitching Options
Posted: July 20, 2019, 10:37 PM Post
Posts: 88
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Wonder what the price on Chris Martin would be if the Rangers decide to sell. He wouldn’t be the main relief piece in a best case scenario, but could be a great complimentary piece and likely wouldn’t cost a ton. He signed a two year deal with the Rangers before 2018 so he’s expiring and is 33 years old.
His numbers this year are actually extremely solid and I feel like it hasn’t gotten any attention.
ERA: 2.97
xFIP: 2.84
BB/9: 0.74(!)
He seems like a guy Stearns would have his eye on if the Rangers do in fact sell. Which is looking more and more likely.


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