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Is it time to consider moving Hader

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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 6:33 AM Post
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Mudville9 said:
A player like Hader in Dodger stadium is a Chapman type acquisition.

I wonder if the Dodgers end up signing Chapman themselves this off-season. He is able to opt out of the final two years and $34.4 million on his deal, and the Dodgers would seem like the perfect landing spot for a new deal.

I agree with the premise though that the Dodgers are a team that should place a higher value on an elite reliever upgrade.

Another team I wouldn’t totally discount is the Twins, as I’ve mentioned before Derek Falvey was involved with acquiring Andrew Miller via trade for the Indians in 2016.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 8:17 AM Post
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The Twins have a lot of money to spend even with relatively cheap ownership. They need to drop roughly $75 million of 2020 dollars on pitching.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 9:25 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
3and2Fastball said:
Hader is one of the very few big trade chips we have that can really help to bring in a much needed (and more important to the team) Shortstop.

Relief Pitchers are volatile by nature, year to year.

His production is trending downwards.

Yes, I'd trade him...


I have a tough time seeing the Brewers outwardly shopping Hader this winter. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a team offer of a package of prospects or MLB talent that makes Stearns consider it, though.

I personally can't see Hader being dealt. But if he is, it's going to be for a huge haul. I could see a team with highly ranked systems like the Braves, Padres, White Sox, Rays, and Phillies making a godfather-type offer. The Dodgers and Astros are also possibilities.

Every one of those teams has pieces that are either already on the MLB roster, or are MLB-ready, that the Brewers would be interested in.


If Chapman doesn't opt out, I think offers for Hader will come in. Whoever loses the Chapman sweepstakes if he does opt out will come calling as well. It never hurts to listen, but those teams will get a "no" unless they offer a king's ransom.

The Crew has Hader under control through 2024, per Baseball Reference, and he's not due for arbitration until after 2021.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... jo01.shtml

That's five years, two of them at MLB minimum (or super-cheap).

So, I see the Crew keeping Hader for the two cheap years barring an offer along the lines of Lux and Bellinger from the Dodgers or Tatis, Mejia, and Paddack from the Padres. I really wish MLB allowed teams to trade draft picks, because I think that is what would make me a little more inclined to deal Hader.

L.A. can have him, but they not only hand over Bellinger and Lux, they can give us their first-round picks for the next three years, and about a half-dozen others. Kinda make that deal work for the Crew the way the Herschel Walker deal worked for the Cowboys.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 9:57 AM Post
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Yeah, OK, LOL. Bellinger?


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:02 AM Post
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clancyphile said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
3and2Fastball said:
Hader is one of the very few big trade chips we have that can really help to bring in a much needed (and more important to the team) Shortstop.

Relief Pitchers are volatile by nature, year to year.

His production is trending downwards.

Yes, I'd trade him...


I have a tough time seeing the Brewers outwardly shopping Hader this winter. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a team offer of a package of prospects or MLB talent that makes Stearns consider it, though.

I personally can't see Hader being dealt. But if he is, it's going to be for a huge haul. I could see a team with highly ranked systems like the Braves, Padres, White Sox, Rays, and Phillies making a godfather-type offer. The Dodgers and Astros are also possibilities.

Every one of those teams has pieces that are either already on the MLB roster, or are MLB-ready, that the Brewers would be interested in.


If Chapman doesn't opt out, I think offers for Hader will come in. Whoever loses the Chapman sweepstakes if he does opt out will come calling as well. It never hurts to listen, but those teams will get a "no" unless they offer a king's ransom.

The Crew has Hader under control through 2024, per Baseball Reference, and he's not due for arbitration until after 2021.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... jo01.shtml

That's five years, two of them at MLB minimum (or super-cheap).

So, I see the Crew keeping Hader for the two cheap years barring an offer along the lines of Lux and Bellinger from the Dodgers or Tatis, Mejia, and Paddack from the Padres. I really wish MLB allowed teams to trade draft picks, because I think that is what would make me a little more inclined to deal Hader.

L.A. can have him, but they not only hand over Bellinger and Lux, they can give us their first-round picks for the next three years, and about a half-dozen others. Kinda make that deal work for the Crew the way the Herschel Walker deal worked for the Cowboys.


Uhh, no.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:09 AM Post
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I think Lax straight up would do it for me. But sure, if you can get Bellinger and Buehler and Smith while you're at it, why not.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:12 AM Post
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clancyphile said:

L.A. can have him, but they not only hand over Bellinger and Lux, they can give us their first-round picks for the next three years, and about a half-dozen others. Kinda make that deal work for the Crew the way the Herschel Walker deal worked for the Cowboys.


Is this trolling?

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:48 AM Post
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Bellinger would probably cost us Supak and Suter


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:50 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Mudville9 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
I don't see the incremental value being there for a team to offer the mammoth deal people think it would take to pry Hader. You offer the farm for Christian Yelich, not for a RP when most of the suitors can just go out buy someone not as good, but good enough without dealing prospects.

I doubt he gets traded, but if he does, I think most of this place would be very underwhelmed by the return.


While I normally very much agree with opinion, the fact that the Dodgers lost is dramatic fashion last night due to their bullpen will definitely have them making changes in the offseason. As someone said a few posts ago, Hader is much more valuable to a team like the Dodgers than a team like the Giants. A player like Hader in Dodger stadium is a Chapman type acquisition. If they come calling, Stearns should listen and see what can be pried away. If they dangled Lux and May, I would hope there would be a conversation there. Resign Moose, Lux and SS, Keston at 2b, Thames/Braun at first is a pretty darn good infield. RP like Hader are not a dime a dozen, but if Stearns wants to consistently push for the playoffs, this might be the best way to go about it.


I agree ... last night's pen implosion from the Dodgers is going to have them in a panic to make major upgrades in the pen. Hader is one of the most electric pen arms out there. The move makes a lot of sense, which means it's likely to not happen. But if the Dodgers dangled a couple players like Lux, Seager, May or Will Smith for Hader, Stearns would have to listen.


Lux and Seager are basically the same player. I could see the Dodgers moving one of them in a pkg for Hader. I don't know if May who has a high ceiling, would be in the deal though. Lux and Smith would get Stearns thinking.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:50 AM Post
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monkeyman343434 said:
Bellinger would probably cost us Supak and Suter


Well, Bellinger was pretty bad in September. Might be a good "buy-low" opportunity.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:51 AM Post
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Hader for Lux and Josiah Gray. Who says no?


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 10:59 AM Post
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wibadgers23 said:
Hader for Lux and Josiah Gray. Who says no?


That's pretty much the exact type of package I think it's going to take to pry Hader away from Milwaukee. That's a couple surefire blue chip prospects. Lux is MLB ready and there's a strong chance that Gray will be sometime in 2020.

It would be interesting to find out if the Dodgers value Lux and Seager the same way. I'd be stoked to have either one of those guys.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 11:36 AM Post
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I would trade Hader for Lux straight up. Don't think LA ever would.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 11:49 AM Post
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More I think of this LAD scenario I really think Seger would be the one they're willing to part with, not Lux. Seger with two years of control for Hader straight up? I think LAD should kick in something more in that scenario due to the lack of control. But, if I'm MKE I try to buyout like two years of FA right after the trade as well. Having had a major injury hopefully Seger is willing to put some good money in the bank.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 11:50 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
I would trade Hader for Lux straight up. Don't think LA ever would.


Depends on the value they put on Hader. I don't think there has been a reliever dealt with his type of value since the Yankees basically rebuilt their farm system by dealing off Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 1:16 PM Post
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While LA is a large market and enjoys what comes with that, their farm has been outstanding for years now. I don't think a group that operates that way is going to send Lux off for a RP. Even though it is probably a sure thing Hader helps them more than Lux in 2020, I just see that group as too smart to do it.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 1:24 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
While LA is a large market and enjoys what comes with that, their farm has been outstanding for years now. I don't think a group that operates that way is going to send Lux off for a RP. Even though it is probably a sure thing Hader helps them more than Lux in 2020, I just see that group as too smart to do it.


Seager and Gray for Hader is fair for both teams.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 1:25 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
While LA is a large market and enjoys what comes with that, their farm has been outstanding for years now. I don't think a group that operates that way is going to send Lux off for a RP. Even though it is probably a sure thing Hader helps them more than Lux in 2020, I just see that group as too smart to do it.


That's a good point. That team is run incredibly smartly. But at the same time, it's an easy argument to say that the bullpen is also the Achilles Heel of a Dodgers super team that is set up to compete for titles for the next 4-5 seasons at least. I'm thinking there will be a huge amount of pressure on that front office to get that team a championship after annually falling short for so long.

There were some indications that they were close to pulling the trigger on a Vasquez deal at the deadline (apparently the Pirates were adamant that Lux came back), and there is certainly an argument that Hader may very well hold even more value than Vasquez did at the time.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 2:05 PM Post
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Granted, if the Brewers are competitive at the deadline, maybe it ends up being an opportunity lost instead of an offseason "help both sides" trade, but if I'm the Dodgers, I'm waiting until the trade deadline if I have a directive to go out and overpay for relief help. The Padres are improving but they should be up by 10 games at the deadline. Make your move then.

Also, I know that Kershaw is "playoff Kershaw" and all, but you still got to run Clayton Kershaw out there, Maeda who was dominant, and then Joe Kelly...and that might be the punchline to a joke to some, but Kelly was very, very good after May this year. Better than Hader.

Just as most logical Brewers fans will say, "well, Hader has his warts but we were missing Knebel (and others) putting him on an island and in that game there was a broken bat hit, a weird HBP call, and an error...I'm not THAT worried about Hader" you can justify the same for Kershaw and Kelly. One of the homers off of Kershaw was dug out of the ground. I don't have much of an excuse for Kelly but he was filthy over the past 5 months of the season and hadn't had many issues other than that one inning in the playoffs.

It's the cruel reality of baseball playoffs and a small sample. "If we want to win a title, Hader, Knebel, Burnes, and Woodruff are the guys we need to build around and then we need to add more bullpen pieces. Jeffress choked."

This is not a perfect analog/comparison from 2018 to 2019 but now Hader somewhat choked after he was our reliable playoff pitcher in 2019. Burnes fell apart.

Point being, you can say, "these are the guys that choked in the playoffs last year, we need to add new, reliable pieces" only to have those "new, reliable" pieces be the Achilles heel in your next playoff run. Of course you can always minimize the chances by adding as many good players as possible, but it's harder than just saying, "our [really good] bullpen choked. Let's get different guys in here and see if they don't."


Last edited by bill hAll Star on October 10, 2019, 2:14 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: October 10, 2019, 2:12 PM Post
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bill hAll Star said:
Granted, if the Brewers are competitive at the deadline, maybe it ends up being an opportunity lost instead of an offseason "help both sides" trade, but if I'm the Dodgers, I'm waiting until the trade deadline if I have a directive to go out and overpay for relief help. The Padres are improving but they should be up by 10 games at the deadline. Make your move then.

Also, I know that Kershaw is "playoff Kershaw" and all, but you still got to run Clayton Kershaw out there, Maeda who was dominant, and then Joe Kelly...and that might be the punchline to a joke to some, but Kelly was very, very good after May this year. Better than Hader.

Just as most logical Brewers fans will say, "well, Hader has his warts but we were missing Knebel (and others) putting him on an island and in that game there was a broken bat hit, a weird HBP call, and an error...I'm not THAT worried about Hader" you can justify the same for Kershaw and Kelly. One of the homers off of Kershaw was dug out of the ground. I don't have much of an excuse for Kelly but he was filthy over the past 5 months of the season and hadn't had many issues other than that one inning in the playoffs.


The problem is Joe Kelly has been a 1-inning guy. He should have never been brought out for that second inning of work, regardless of where his pitch count stood.


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