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Is it time to consider moving Hader

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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:26 PM Post
Posts: 1425
This just in, prospects fail. Trading Hader now is pretty ludricous considering we have Yelich for at least 3 more years. We are adding boys, no rebuild for 2-3 more years, tough pill for Brewerfan to swallow [smile]


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:32 PM Post
Posts: 620
Jopal78! said:
I feel inclined to bring this up every time there is a trade proposed for Hader. Milwaukee is in the middle of a contending window. Hader is their best overall pitcher, with no replacement on the roster. It just isn't logical to trade their best overall pitcher, and especially not for 'prospects' when the team has the expectation of contending.

I'm sure the Brewers would trade him if bowled with an offer, but what are the chances, for example, of the Padres offering Chris Paddack and Dinelson Lamet for Hader.... zip.


Generally speaking - I would agree 100% with what you are saying. I do think the Brewers would have to be literally blown away with an offer if they were to even entertain trading Hader right now. Especially considering that we are in a win-now mode. However, I also wouldn't rule it out completely. The fact is - relievers are the most volatile position in all of baseball year to year, and we already started to see a few warts with Hader this past season giving up the home run ball at a high clip. And, just look what we got for Thornburg a few years ago when we traded him to the Red Sox, and he wasn't even half the pitcher that Hader is today. So, if a team like the Dodgers gets really desperate this winter and approaches DS with a Lux/Ruiz or Lux/Gonsolin/Rios offer (where we could plug 2-3 holes at the MLB level with quality players), wouldn't you have to consider moving Hader in that situation. Then, go out and use some of that money saved to bring back Pomeranz and maybe another reliever?


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:55 PM Post
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Location: Chicago
madtownhawk said:
Jopal78! said:
I feel inclined to bring this up every time there is a trade proposed for Hader. Milwaukee is in the middle of a contending window. Hader is their best overall pitcher, with no replacement on the roster. It just isn't logical to trade their best overall pitcher, and especially not for 'prospects' when the team has the expectation of contending.

I'm sure the Brewers would trade him if bowled with an offer, but what are the chances, for example, of the Padres offering Chris Paddack and Dinelson Lamet for Hader.... zip.


Generally speaking - I would agree 100% with what you are saying. I do think the Brewers would have to be literally blown away with an offer if they were to even entertain trading Hader right now. Especially considering that we are in a win-now mode. However, I also wouldn't rule it out completely. The fact is - relievers are the most volatile position in all of baseball year to year, and we already started to see a few warts with Hader this past season giving up the home run ball at a high clip. And, just look what we got for Thornburg a few years ago when we traded him to the Red Sox, and he wasn't even half the pitcher that Hader is today. So, if a team like the Dodgers gets really desperate this winter and approaches DS with a Lux/Ruiz or Lux/Gonsolin/Rios offer (where we could plug 2-3 holes at the MLB level with quality players), wouldn't you have to consider moving Hader in that situation. Then, go out and use some of that money saved to bring back Pomeranz and maybe another reliever?


Honestly, I'm sure they'd think about it but the answer would be no. Why? Lux will probably be a good player, but what is anyone's guess if: the 2020 Brewers + Lux - Hader > 2019 Brewers. The other prospects are even more up in the air as to their ability to be quality players in the short run.

I also think, since the Dodgers are one of the teams the Brewers are competing against, a trade where the Dodgers net a valuable major league asset from their competitor without giving up anything from their currently loaded roster, isn't a trade a competing GM is likely going to make.


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Online  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: November 13, 2019, 3:25 PM Post
Posts: 606
Jopal78! said:
madtownhawk said:
Jopal78! said:
I feel inclined to bring this up every time there is a trade proposed for Hader. Milwaukee is in the middle of a contending window. Hader is their best overall pitcher, with no replacement on the roster. It just isn't logical to trade their best overall pitcher, and especially not for 'prospects' when the team has the expectation of contending.

I'm sure the Brewers would trade him if bowled with an offer, but what are the chances, for example, of the Padres offering Chris Paddack and Dinelson Lamet for Hader.... zip.


Generally speaking - I would agree 100% with what you are saying. I do think the Brewers would have to be literally blown away with an offer if they were to even entertain trading Hader right now. Especially considering that we are in a win-now mode. However, I also wouldn't rule it out completely. The fact is - relievers are the most volatile position in all of baseball year to year, and we already started to see a few warts with Hader this past season giving up the home run ball at a high clip. And, just look what we got for Thornburg a few years ago when we traded him to the Red Sox, and he wasn't even half the pitcher that Hader is today. So, if a team like the Dodgers gets really desperate this winter and approaches DS with a Lux/Ruiz or Lux/Gonsolin/Rios offer (where we could plug 2-3 holes at the MLB level with quality players), wouldn't you have to consider moving Hader in that situation. Then, go out and use some of that money saved to bring back Pomeranz and maybe another reliever?


Honestly, I'm sure they'd think about it but the answer would be no. Why? Lux will probably be a good player, but what is anyone's guess if: the 2020 Brewers + Lux - Hader > 2019 Brewers. The other prospects are even more up in the air as to their ability to be quality players in the short run.

I also think, since the Dodgers are one of the teams the Brewers are competing against, a trade where the Dodgers net a valuable major league asset from their competitor without giving up anything from their currently loaded roster, isn't a trade a competing GM is likely going to make.


IMO any trade with the Dodgers has to start with Wil Smith (C). Unless Stearns is going to re-sign Grandal, Smith would fit the bill for a starting catcher and free up money to sign Iglesias plus Betances ( or another decent reliever AND Pomeranz.


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Online  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: November 13, 2019, 3:27 PM Post
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Jopal78! said:
madtownhawk said:
Jopal78! said:
I feel inclined to bring this up every time there is a trade proposed for Hader. Milwaukee is in the middle of a contending window. Hader is their best overall pitcher, with no replacement on the roster. It just isn't logical to trade their best overall pitcher, and especially not for 'prospects' when the team has the expectation of contending.

I'm sure the Brewers would trade him if bowled with an offer, but what are the chances, for example, of the Padres offering Chris Paddack and Dinelson Lamet for Hader.... zip.


Generally speaking - I would agree 100% with what you are saying. I do think the Brewers would have to be literally blown away with an offer if they were to even entertain trading Hader right now. Especially considering that we are in a win-now mode. However, I also wouldn't rule it out completely. The fact is - relievers are the most volatile position in all of baseball year to year, and we already started to see a few warts with Hader this past season giving up the home run ball at a high clip. And, just look what we got for Thornburg a few years ago when we traded him to the Red Sox, and he wasn't even half the pitcher that Hader is today. So, if a team like the Dodgers gets really desperate this winter and approaches DS with a Lux/Ruiz or Lux/Gonsolin/Rios offer (where we could plug 2-3 holes at the MLB level with quality players), wouldn't you have to consider moving Hader in that situation. Then, go out and use some of that money saved to bring back Pomeranz and maybe another reliever?


Honestly, I'm sure they'd think about it but the answer would be no. Why? Lux will probably be a good player, but what is anyone's guess if: the 2020 Brewers + Lux - Hader > 2019 Brewers. The other prospects are even more up in the air as to their ability to be quality players in the short run.

I also think, since the Dodgers are one of the teams the Brewers are competing against, a trade where the Dodgers net a valuable major league asset from their competitor without giving up anything from their currently loaded roster, isn't a trade a competing GM is likely going to make.


Any deal with the Dodgers for Hader would need to have multiple high-end major league-ready pieces coming back, I imagine. The Brewers' ask for Hader would likely be sky high, as it should be.


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Online  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 9:50 PM Post
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Ken Rosenthal is reporting via The Athletic that Hader is in fact available, "according to major league sources."

Speculates that the Mets are a possible landing spot, naming J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil as possible return chips. Also names Nationals, Dodgers and Twins ... along with pretty much any contender, as other possibilities.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 10:34 PM Post
Posts: 2360
I'm in. McNeil is a great fit if Mets want to make a deal. Love Hader of course but we may have seen his best season already. He's about to get expensive. If Knebel is back then I say move him.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:06 PM Post
Posts: 4734
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Ken Rosenthal is reporting via The Athletic that Hader is in fact available, "according to major league sources."

Speculates that the Mets are a possible landing spot, naming J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil as possible return chips. Also names Nationals, Dodgers and Twins ... along with pretty much any contender, as other possibilities.


Plug McNeil in at third... you now have a 1-4 of Urias/Hiura/Yelich/McNeil...

Sign Moose and Castellanos...

Offense is set, and a combo of Perdomo/QTC/Andrews could very well provide much of what Hader did.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:09 PM Post
Posts: 23
I'd be willing to part with Hader and I think if they do LAD or NYM are most likely. I'd need someone like Joc from the Dodgers or McNeil from the Mets to get it done though. Relievers are volatile so it may be wise to cash in on Hader now and still compete.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:28 PM Post
Posts: 91
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
ntretts said:
I'd be willing to part with Hader and I think if they do LAD or NYM are most likely. I'd need someone like Joc from the Dodgers or McNeil from the Mets to get it done though. Relievers are volatile so it may be wise to cash in on Hader now and still compete.

Joc Pederson headlining a deal for Hader would be absolutely awful...


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:30 PM Post
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Posts: 439
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Ken Rosenthal is reporting via The Athletic that Hader is in fact available, "according to major league sources."

Speculates that the Mets are a possible landing spot, naming J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil as possible return chips. Also names Nationals, Dodgers and Twins ... along with pretty much any contender, as other possibilities.

If the Mets are offering Davis AND McNeil, jump on it! It creates one issue every couple of days, but solves two everyday.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:30 PM Post
Posts: 23
Smichaelis9 said:
ntretts said:
I'd be willing to part with Hader and I think if they do LAD or NYM are most likely. I'd need someone like Joc from the Dodgers or McNeil from the Mets to get it done though. Relievers are volatile so it may be wise to cash in on Hader now and still compete.

Joc Pederson headlining a deal for Hader would be absolutely awful...


Just noticed Pederson only has 2 years of control remaining... you are correct. I'd take one of Ruiz/Smith instead as our catcher of the future.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 01, 2019, 11:47 PM Post
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I’d want Edwin Diaz back in addition


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 02, 2019, 9:21 AM Post
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Given the volatility of most late inning relievers I am ok exploring a trade.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 02, 2019, 12:00 PM Post
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Posts: 5625
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Jaylyn said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Ken Rosenthal is reporting via The Athletic that Hader is in fact available, "according to major league sources."

Speculates that the Mets are a possible landing spot, naming J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil as possible return chips. Also names Nationals, Dodgers and Twins ... along with pretty much any contender, as other possibilities.

If the Mets are offering Davis AND McNeil, jump on it! It creates one issue every couple of days, but solves two everyday.


I would hold out for something better. I am not all that in love with McNeil and Davis is another Shaw type to me and the Brewers already have Shaw why give up a valuable asset just to get the same player back?

If I am trading Hader I would look at the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and the Twins before I even think about picking up the phone and listening to what the Mets are offering. I would prefer to trade with the Dodgers and somehow get May but I don't believe the Dodgers are going trade May.

I wonder if the Yankees would do Deivi Garcia and Andujar for Hader. Andujar is probably better suited at 1B than 3B which would drop his value a little bit and you may be able to get someone like Florial or Pereira in addition to Garcia and Andujar. Garcia is a top of the rotation type starting pitcher at AA right now so he is on track for either being in the majors by the middle of the next season or at the latest the 2021 season.

Garcia is a 50 FV type of a prospect so he is definitely in the range of what you can expect for a Hader return prospect wise. The biggest down size is his height at 5'9" other than that his biggest issue would be his BB/9 but his K/9 has been about 12 K/9 which is in the elite range for starting pitchers. If you can get Andujar and Garcia from the Yankees that gives you a stud 1B/3B and a #1/2 pitcher with Ace potential.

Preferably the best trade options are with the Astros, Dodgers and Twins in terms of MLB ready players who have a lot of control left. For the Dodgers you are looking at trying to center something around May or Ruiz. For the Astros it is Whitley and for the Twins Lewis, Kiriloff, or Graterol would be the center pieces of a trade for Hader. I don't think the Twins will trade either of those three for Hader and the same with the Astros and Whitley.

Realistically I think a Hader trade comes down to the Yankees, Dodgers and the Mets. I don't see the Mets having the players the Brewers want and the ones the Brewers do want are probably not available. The same probably goes with the Dodgers with May and Ruiz being off the table for Hader so you are looking at second tier players from the Dodgers in Downs, Gray and Cartaya. While I like Gray from the Dodgers I am just not that in love with him and Downs being the center pieces for a Hader trade.

I just don't see a Hader trade as a possibility as I don't believe the assets are available for a Hader trade to happen.


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Online  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 02, 2019, 2:12 PM Post
Posts: 606
nate82 said:
Jaylyn said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Ken Rosenthal is reporting via The Athletic that Hader is in fact available, "according to major league sources."

Speculates that the Mets are a possible landing spot, naming J.D. Davis and Jeff McNeil as possible return chips. Also names Nationals, Dodgers and Twins ... along with pretty much any contender, as other possibilities.

If the Mets are offering Davis AND McNeil, jump on it! It creates one issue every couple of days, but solves two everyday.


I would hold out for something better. I am not all that in love with McNeil and Davis is another Shaw type to me and the Brewers already have Shaw why give up a valuable asset just to get the same player back?

If I am trading Hader I would look at the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and the Twins before I even think about picking up the phone and listening to what the Mets are offering. I would prefer to trade with the Dodgers and somehow get May but I don't believe the Dodgers are going trade May.

I wonder if the Yankees would do Deivi Garcia and Andujar for Hader. Andujar is probably better suited at 1B than 3B which would drop his value a little bit and you may be able to get someone like Florial or Pereira in addition to Garcia and Andujar. Garcia is a top of the rotation type starting pitcher at AA right now so he is on track for either being in the majors by the middle of the next season or at the latest the 2021 season.

Garcia is a 50 FV type of a prospect so he is definitely in the range of what you can expect for a Hader return prospect wise. The biggest down size is his height at 5'9" other than that his biggest issue would be his BB/9 but his K/9 has been about 12 K/9 which is in the elite range for starting pitchers. If you can get Andujar and Garcia from the Yankees that gives you a stud 1B/3B and a #1/2 pitcher with Ace potential.

Preferably the best trade options are with the Astros, Dodgers and Twins in terms of MLB ready players who have a lot of control left. For the Dodgers you are looking at trying to center something around May or Ruiz. For the Astros it is Whitley and for the Twins Lewis, Kiriloff, or Graterol would be the center pieces of a trade for Hader. I don't think the Twins will trade either of those three for Hader and the same with the Astros and Whitley.

Realistically I think a Hader trade comes down to the Yankees, Dodgers and the Mets. I don't see the Mets having the players the Brewers want and the ones the Brewers do want are probably not available. The same probably goes with the Dodgers with May and Ruiz being off the table for Hader so you are looking at second tier players from the Dodgers in Downs, Gray and Cartaya. While I like Gray from the Dodgers I am just not that in love with him and Downs being the center pieces for a Hader trade.

I just don't see a Hader trade as a possibility as I don't believe the assets are available for a Hader trade to happen.


Andujar was one of the worst 3B in modern history in 2018. He is a 1B at best and that downgrades his value to the Brewers a lot. The Brewers need MLB ready prospects if they are going to trade Hader. Garcia struggled in his AAA time, so he needs at least another year. IMO they could do better.


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Offline  Re: Is it time to consider moving Hader
Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:54 PM Post
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I'm to the point that I'll be somewhat let down if they don't trade him. His value is as high as it's ever going to be going forward as he gets closer to FA. And the more that NL batters face him, the easier he'll likely be able to time up if he's going to keep trying to get by on one pitch. The HR rate last year was alarming. And I'm excited thinking about Stearns taking bids and selecting the talent he's highest on in return.


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